Am I overdoing it with this Mastering Chain?

guitarguru777

guitarguru777

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Nov 13, 2003
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I am in the middle of mastering a project for a band I just finished mixing. This is my first attempt at really mastering FOR REAL, just wondering if I am overdoing it .....

Chain:

Focusrite EQ
Ozone Harmonic Exciter
Gclip
Waves G-SSL Comp
Voxengo Elephant
T-Racks Brickwall Limiter


EDIT: Wanted to put my thought process in...lol

Overall EQ Sculpting of the mix from the Focusrite EQ. The only reason for the exciter is that the EQ on the focusright I couldnt get to sit right, and when I used the exciter and tweaked the higs to the specific frequency it came out how I wanted. Gclip is G Clip you know what it does ..lol G SSL the overall GLUE for the mix. Elephant to get my Loudness. T-Racks to brick wall the entire thing at the end of the chain.

Mix is pushing just around -8.9 RMS

I am just really concerned that I am really "over doing it" and have too many things running. My PC handles it fine, but this actually sounds great to my ears.
 
While I agree with Egan, I will say that you've got more dynamics-based plugins than I'd be fully comfortable with (G-Clip, SSL comp, Elephant, Brickwall Lim). It'd be really easy to overdo it with all those unless you staged things carefully.
 
The order you see is the way they are staged

GClip is only there to keep the kick and snare really audible. My understanding is it there to tame the peaks pretty much and keep the snare and kick audible by clipping them. Thats the only reason I popped it in the chain before the SSL as I was getting some pumping that I didnt like but I loved how my overall balance between low, mid and high end was in the mix. Elephant was there just to get the mix as loud as the client wanted and the brick wall was to keep it all for distorting like mad and peaking all over the place.

Ill post an mp3 sample, I am pretty stoked about how it turned out other then the really fizzy guitars but thats how he wanted his guitars sounding. I tried to talk him out of it but no luck. I also think they made me use WAYYYY too much high end in the overall mix. But that was another band decision I lost :(
 
I will say that it sounds pretty squashed/fatiguing on my end.

I will also say that if you need to use a clipper while mastering to get your snare and kick heard, there are way bigger issues to deal with in your mix itself.

The Brickwall Limiter in this case is redundant though, as Elephant, being a limiter, does it's own limiting.
 
^^agreed. Why using two limiters (unless on purpose, for. shaving a db or so with each, but it's clear that Elephant alone can suit your needs here)?
Also, instead of clipping the whole mix, why don't you clip snare and kick on their own busses/tracks? This way you are cutting peaks on the whole mix (I do know that Slate recommended once using two GClips in a row on the master buss tho).
 
Well since you have been here for ages you most likely kinda already know that there is no wrong or right way to mix or master.

With that being said I would loose the Gclip and T-Racks Brickwall Limiter.
I would maybe keep another limiter before elephant like the L1 to do maybe 1db, just to glue it a bit (if its benefiting the mix).. but the way you are saying you are setting up your chain seems more to aim towards fixing something in the master that should be fixed in the mix.

But again, if it sounds good and you are happy.. carry on :) (cant listen to the clip atm)
 
Now that I know what gclip really does, I often use it on the snare if I can't hear it in the mix and it works great! On the master bus, I think that you may have too much plugs too. I often just go with a "stereo wider" (just to add some space if need) then a first EQ, Wave L3LL-multimaximiser (limiter and multiband compressor) and a 2nd Eq if needed. I'm a noob at it but it works for me and it's quit simple.
 
I agree with Jeff, using a clipper on your master for the purpose of bringing out a individual instrument is the wrong approach. Your mix should sound the way you want it without any mastering going on. Try the slate trick on the kick and snare. 2 instances of GClip on 2x over sampling shaving a little on each (kick and snare - area you mentioned) see if that helps man
 
without hearing the un mastered version it is impossible to say if you are over doing it because it is the un mastered mix that determines the mastering chain used and this can and will vary from song to song, even on the same album!

Not sure where you are getting your RMS levels from but this comes in at
-10.7db not -8db as you stated so given that I would say you have over done the comps and limiters a bit yeah. I am sending you a PM M8.

Cheers.
 
According to Elephant its hitting around 8.9.

Ill hit you up in a bit Pikachu! I am in the "doubting my ears" stage once again I guess ....lol

The issue I am really having with this entire thing is the band asking for it to be louder, louder, louder. That was one of the main things, they keep telling me they need to be in the -4 range to compete and I keep trying to prove them wrong but they wont listen. I have done everything I can to try and keep the mix as balanced as possible, but they have been back 3 times now since the first time I finished mixing it and they keep wanting to make changes. Not sure how to go about telling them to shut it cause the reason they came to me in the first place is they loved the work I did on a friends of theirs CD .......

Pulling my hair out at this point.
 
if they want LOUD....give them loud.
personally, i always try to explain the loudness issue to my clients....the fact that you can only push a mix so far before it starts to sound like smashed ass. sometimes i'll also do 2 masters, one LOUD and one that sounds good lol.
but eventually, it's their choice. if they want loud, i'll give em crazy ass loud. if it sounds like shit, at least they'll know why XD
sucks from an audiophile point of view, but well, you don't put a 1,2l engine in a ferrari just because it's better for the environment and saves gas and whatnot...if the customer want's a fast car, you don't give him a gas saving one because it's the sensible solution....
 
A brickwall limiter (T-Racks) after another brickwall limiter (Elephant) looks redundant to me. If you can´t reach the desired loudness with one of them alone without distortion I suggest you to try "TBT TLs Maximizer".
 
So they just called me after a night of listening to a CD of the "final masters".....

Singer: You know there is A LOT of high end on this mix
Guitarist: Its a bit too scooped
Bass Player: This thing is really squashed its got no dynamics

Then I proiceed to tell them why .....

Me: You know you guys asked for all that high end right?
Me: You know you asked me to scoop between 800 and 1K right?
Me: You know you asked for it to be super compressed and loud as fuck right?

So they come back today and we are going to re-master AGAIN. MY WAY!
 
i highly recommend NOT mastering your own mixes. if you let someone else master it,
it will cost the band to make changes after the mastering is done.
if your doing it on your own, the band might come back : can you change this and that?
an external mastering engineer will charge extra for changes. that will keep the band from pointless recalls.
 
Without reading all posts carefully... try to keep it simple. Dandelium´s chain worked best for me. Just: EQ - Gclip - SSlcomp - Gclip - Brickwall. With attack 30ms, release auto and -8db GR, my masters are loud and dynamic at once. Sometimes C4 for glue. The thing is, with two Gclip´s i hit the limiter just around -4, and get nice rms. Just my 2 cents...

+1 to clipping the snare (or drumbus) right at mixing stage.
 
Sounds like the "s"es in the vocals are clipping a bit at times, am I the only one hearing this (they sound like they stick out of the mix a bit)? The cymbals also sound like they're clipping a bit sometimes and the mix is pretty fatiguing as a whole. It's not totally ruined though, but I wouldn't smash it that hard, unless they explicitly want it that loud...
 
MetalMiller said:
Without reading all posts carefully... try to keep it simple. Dandelium´s chain worked best for me. Just: EQ - Gclip - SSlcomp - Gclip - Brickwall. With attack 30ms, release auto and -8db GR, my masters are loud and dynamic at once. Sometimes C4 for glue. The thing is, with two Gclip´s i hit the limiter just around -4, and get nice rms. Just my 2 cents...

+1 to clipping the snare (or drumbus) right at mixing stage.
Click to expand...

MetalMiller, do you mix into the bus comp from the start, or do you add it at the end of the mix, in the mastering session?

In any case, 8dB of GR with a plug-in is a lot, I've never been able to exceed 5-6dB of GR without the mix started to pump in an unpleasant way.

Secondly: how much gain do you add with each instance of GClip?

Giuseppe [giubis]
 
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