...And Justice for All

[abt]

I didn't read all the comments here so I could be covering old ground here. IMO the production on this album is in fact pretty crap. BUT this is such a good album that the production is of no consequence. Not only that it spawned about a million bands that not only overlooked the production but set out to deliberately emulate it. Like it or not, those kicks, those in your face guitars, that scoop, have influenced what we do and hear today immensely.

I love this album. One of the best ever. Easily in the top ten albums of all time.

What Jason plays on the album we may never know.

One thing that has always intrigued me is that Metallica has bitched and moaned about the production on Justice for more than twenty years and then they release SKOM.

Imagine getting hold of those master tapes.....

 

[Jormyn]

What Jason plays on the album we may never know.

Imagine getting hold of those master tapes.....

Um, we do know. Someone figured out that, since Guitar Hero uses the original master tracks, it was possible to turn up Jason's part and re-render the songs. Do some searching for "And Justice For Jason", or "And Justice For All moggs".

 

[CubanDude]

I gotta agree on the "I love the production", maybe from an objective point of view it's really shitty, but I just dig it, man. And the guitars sound fricking brutal, doesn't matter if they're scooped to hell, I just love it. This album is supposed to sound the way it does!

 

[Norskmetall]

Everyone have their own taste and preferences, that's ok! Some like busting g12t-75 with EL34 pumping mids... ala Annihilator for instance, some like recto's V30s with R121 ribbons sounding like POD.

But to me, AJFA was a sort of a revelation, listening to a traded cassette copy in 1989 or something.
They tuned in stantard E, but it still sounds to me much more heavier and mean than many contemporary recordings with 7-8 string guitars.
Yes, they scooped the shit out of the guitars, but I believe it was because of the high standard of equipment (tons of Mesa tubes, good mics, Neve console etc.) it still managed to maintain its clarity.

I did a remix just of curiosity with louder bass guitar, and some small EQ on guitars and drums, an expander on the drums too and a bit off ambience. Sounded cool, but without changing the mix entirely.

 

[aramism]

i love the "thud sweet spot" on the guitar low end. it's pretty massive, especially for its time.

 

[Exocaster]

Over the years I've come to appreciate the sound of that record for what it is. I wouldn't change a thing.

And I think that's something that's overlooked- sound as it contributes to the... vibe, personality, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it, of an album as a collected body of work. It is not pleasant in the conventional sense. It also is completely linked with establishing the mood of those songs. It is dark, discomforting and strange. There's more reverb on the vocal than you think, but it seems oddly disconnected, like it's its own thing; same deal with the drums. The rhythm guitars have monstrous amounts of attitude. Even the cleans- they're not just there as a dynamic foil to the heavy bits songwriting-wise, they have personality and character, and a lot of it. That is a grim fucking record, full of negative vibe and sullen anger.

Also, it's awesome. I think it would lose something- a lot of something- if it sounded "nice". I think that's a big part of the point.

 

[abt]

 

[Felix Neumann]

Over the years I've come to appreciate the sound of that record for what it is. I wouldn't change a thing.

And I think that's something that's overlooked- sound as it contributes to the... vibe, personality, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it, of an album as a collected body of work. It is not pleasant in the conventional sense. It also is completely linked with establishing the mood of those songs. It is dark, discomforting and strange. There's more reverb on the vocal than you think, but it seems oddly disconnected, like it's its own thing; same deal with the drums. The rhythm guitars have monstrous amounts of attitude. Even the cleans- they're not just there as a dynamic foil to the heavy bits songwriting-wise, they have personality and character, and a lot of it. That is a grim fucking record, full of negative vibe and sullen anger.

Also, it's awesome. I think it would lose something- a lot of something- if it sounded "nice". I think that's a big part of the point.

Oh dude...you should get a price for one of the best postings I´ve read in a long time. SO TRUE man, so true Well spoken.

 

[Gelatin]

I absolutely love AJFA. It has its own sound and I don't care if it has less 1k or whatever. It's amazing in so many ways (songwriting, feelings, MIXING) that I have nothing bad to say about it. It has its own personality and I love it just the way it is. One of my favourites cd's of all time.

+1

I think the mix on AJFA is unusual but it's still one of my absolute favourites and in a way it set a benchmark for a generation of metal production. The "no bass" discussion is totally valid but in a way that's an artistic choice and you can't really a painting is bad because the painter excluded some of the colors. Not the best analogy in the world but you catch my drift.

I remember as a kid I used to have a bad-ass stereo system in my car and along with RATM's debut, AJFA really stands out as one of the best (e.g. most pleasant) sounding albums from that time. But then again, I'm a sucker for that sterile dry sound.

Got this on my leg last summer as a testament to how much of a cornerstone this album is to my musical upbringing, both songwriting and production wise:

 

[The Unavoidable]

Damn, that's some sick ink!


HALLS OF JUSTICE PAINTED GREEN, MONEY TALKIIING!

 

[Felix Neumann]

AWESOME!!!

 

[ratsapprentice]

 

[Paulie!]

Over the years I've come to appreciate the sound of that record for what it is. I wouldn't change a thing.

And I think that's something that's overlooked- sound as it contributes to the... vibe, personality, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it, of an album as a collected body of work. It is not pleasant in the conventional sense. It also is completely linked with establishing the mood of those songs. It is dark, discomforting and strange. There's more reverb on the vocal than you think, but it seems oddly disconnected, like it's its own thing; same deal with the drums. The rhythm guitars have monstrous amounts of attitude. Even the cleans- they're not just there as a dynamic foil to the heavy bits songwriting-wise, they have personality and character, and a lot of it. That is a grim fucking record, full of negative vibe and sullen anger.

Also, it's awesome. I think it would lose something- a lot of something- if it sounded "nice". I think that's a big part of the point.

+1 A very good point

 

[Fama]

I don't agree with you that it's exactly what the band wanted or anything like that. It does work, in it's own way, quite well, but I think the whole album would have been just as great (or even a little better) if the production had been, well, "better", so to say (you understand what I mean). St. Anger definitely doesn't sound "nice", but I don't hear you praising it for it's anger and ferociousness.

 

[DanLights]

I don't agree with you that it's exactly what the band wanted or anything like that. It does work, in it's own way, quite well, but I think the whole album would have been just as great (or even a little better) if the production had been, well, "better", so to say (you understand what I mean). St. Anger definitely doesn't sound "nice", but I don't hear you praising it for it's anger and ferociousness.

Cause the anger in Justice is honest and real, the anger in St. Anger is 14 year old-ish (invisible kid never knew what 'e did )

I do agree with you fama, yeah it definitely is what it is and people don't want to hear it better cause they fear it will "destroy" their nostalgia of how it actually turned out, but I don't think it's how it was "meant" to be or "exactly what they wanted it to be" cause in the end it never is, it always ends up with some compromises and you learn to love it imperfect as it is like your child, cause there's no such thing as a perfect mix. Or a perfect child

 

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

For me, it goes like this: FIRST you listen to the songs/vibe, THEN you decide on a suitable production to serve the songs.

Based on this, the Justice album contains song such us One. This song, (and most other) are emotionally charged, you almost get a "claustrophobic" feel.
The wet-as-f*ck production really helps to pass this message through to the listener, it creates an atmosphere that really helps the songs.

Of course, there's not always only one way to do things right, so a different production would also make a different (but monumental) record.

 

[DanLights]

For me, it goes like this: FIRST you listen to the songs/vibe, THEN you decide on a suitable production to serve the songs.

Based on this, the Justice album contains song such us One. This song, (and most other) are emotionally charged, you almost get a "claustrophobic" feel.
The wet-as-f*ck production really helps to pass this message through to the listener, it creates an atmosphere that really helps the songs.

Of course, there's not always only one way to do things right, so a different production would also make a different (but monumental) record.

Are you describing Justice as "wet as fuck"? Cause that doesn't really make sense to me at all

 

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

Are you describing Justice as "wet as fuck"? Cause that doesn't really make sense to me at all

Yep, DRY(-as-fuck ) are the right words, lack of reverb etc, my bad.

 

[ArnaudM]

I don't like AJFA.
Though, it has been very inflencial on the whole metal scene, undoubtly.
That's also because Metallica were still listening to what other metal bands did at that time, and were fresh enough to reinvent and improve gimmicks other bands were using, to make them more popular and broadcast them to a larger audience.
The opening "Blackened"s riff reminds me sooo much of a typical MEKONG DELTA riff : it can't be an accident. Even those odd time signatures are inspired by this european techno-thrash scene they had the good idea to take inspiration from (M. Delta, but also Coroner, for example, who released their first album in 1987, albums which were very much respected in the euro thrash metal scene Metallica was closely linked to, mainly due to their european producer, their love for NWOBHM and Ulrich's danish roots).
But I still think this album lacks the genius for arrangement Cliff Burton owed. The songs are messy.

AM

 

[midget donkeys]

Due to this thread I am now currently on an AJFA listening kick.