Anthrax Remasters

[NightChild37]

Anyone know when the Thrax remasters will be out? I heard Charlie say like a year ago they're coming. I know they released the greatest hits remastered, but I want the whole albums. Comon, you know you all want a remastered Fistful of Metal so you can blast it as loud as possible, as it should be.

 

[Bass Fellow]

Anyone know when the Thrax remasters will be out? I heard Charlie say like a year ago they're coming. I know they released the greatest hits remastered, but I want the whole albums. Comon, you know you all want a remastered Fistful of Metal so you can blast it as loud as possible, as it should be.

I think that's gonna be it dude! Maybe when/if the $$$ rolls in. All of the John Bush era cd's have extension reissues.(not sure if technically they were remastered).

 

[ElectricCrown]

The Turbin/Belladonna cds are in desperate need of remastering

whats taking so long??

 

[THEBALDGUYFROMBLACKLODGEVIDEO]

The Turbin/Belladonna cds are in desperate need of remastering

whats taking so long??

Demand.

 

[the_walking_dude]

Anyone know when the Thrax remasters will be out? I heard Charlie say like a year ago they're coming. I know they released the greatest hits remastered, but I want the whole albums. Comon, you know you all want a remastered Fistful of Metal so you can blast it as loud as possible, as it should be.

fistfull re-mastered would fucking rule!!!!

 

[Rise]

i want remasters asap especially fistful and SOE

 

[ThraxMan]

State of Euphoria really needs remastered. It sounds like it was recorded low or something.

ThraxMan

 

[Drokk]

Screw that. They would compress the hell out of them, like Greater of 2 Evils. But "it doesn't sound compressed in my car or my ipod" according to Scott. He's been making records for more than 20 years and he can't hear that his own record is pushed beyond the limit? That record gets so distorted I find it very difficult to listen to.

 

[ZeeZooZum]

Screw that. They would compress the hell out of them, like Greater of 2 Evils. But "it doesn't sound compressed in my car or my ipod" according to Scott. He's been making records for more than 20 years and he can't hear that his own record is pushed beyond the limit? That record gets so distorted I find it very difficult to listen to.

Do you mean clipping insteading of "compress"??

 

[Drokk]

Do you mean clipping insteading of "compress"??

Well, as I understand it, all of the dynamic range has to be "compressed", but I may be wrong about that. In the end, all the peak waves are "clipped", resulting in distortion. Greater of 2 Evils is FULL of it. The drum sound is one of the worst in recent memory; every kick, every cymbal crash is turned into mush. As I've posted before, the worst moments make my speakers crackle with distortion. System of a Down's Hypnotize is particularly guilty of this. It's like listening to FM radio. Any remasters after the mid-90s I avoid, because they are guilty of the same. Iron Maiden--horrible. Megadeth--even worse.

Again, because we're used to everything being so damn loud, engineers are trying to win the loudness race. Whoever is behind it--record execs, probably--engineers are going against their better judgment in mastering CDs.

I know of only one band that fights this, and that's Tool. Listen to Lateralus--there are quiet parts, loud parts, etc.

 

[ZeeZooZum]

Well, as I understand it, all of the dynamic range has to be "compressed", but I may be wrong about that. In the end, all the peak waves are "clipped", resulting in distortion. Greater of 2 Evils is FULL of it. The drum sound is one of the worst in recent memory; every kick, every cymbal crash is turned into mush. As I've posted before, the worst moments make my speakers crackle with distortion. System of a Down's Hypnotize is particularly guilty of this. It's like listening to FM radio. Any remasters after the mid-90s I avoid, because they are guilty of the same. Iron Maiden--horrible. Megadeth--even worse.

Again, because we're used to everything being so damn loud, engineers are trying to win the loudness race. Whoever is behind it--record execs, probably--engineers are going against their better judgment in mastering CDs.

I know of only one band that fights this, and that's Tool. Listen to Lateralus--there are quiet parts, loud parts, etc.

Right, I see.
I don't think the remastering on Anthrology is nearly as bad as Megadeth. Man am I regretting selling my orignials to buy the remasters.

You're right, though. remastering (and even today mastering) for most cds, means making it louder, which kills the dynamic range.

I don't listen to Greater of 2 Evils for the same reason you describe.....

 

[Drokk]

I almost bought the remix/remaster of So Far So Good, as I hadn't had it all these years. Then I heard it! I appreciate the remix, maybe it's too perfect, but wasted by trying to win the loudness race. People are unloading the old versions, so they're easy to find. Sadly, the original CDs of Maiden's catalog are hard to find now (they've always sounded fantastic, and never needed a remaster).

Again, 10 or more years ago, remasters were good--The Police Message in a Box sounds awesome, and Zeppelin's remasters, to name a few.

 

[Bass Fellow]

Well, as I understand it, all of the dynamic range has to be "compressed", but I may be wrong about that. In the end, all the peak waves are "clipped", resulting in distortion. Greater of 2 Evils is FULL of it. The drum sound is one of the worst in recent memory; every kick, every cymbal crash is turned into mush. As I've posted before, the worst moments make my speakers crackle with distortion. System of a Down's Hypnotize is particularly guilty of this. It's like listening to FM radio. Any remasters after the mid-90s I avoid, because they are guilty of the same. Iron Maiden--horrible. Megadeth--even worse.

Again, because we're used to everything being so damn loud, engineers are trying to win the loudness race. Whoever is behind it--record execs, probably--engineers are going against their better judgment in mastering CDs.

I know of only one band that fights this, and that's Tool. Listen to Lateralus--there are quiet parts, loud parts, etc.

You're are correct in most points except a compression/limiter eliminates distortion by clipping "peak" waves. Back in the day of magnetic tape no matter how loud something was recorded live, only about 70%(dB) of made it into the dynamic range b/c of mainly system noise, tape noise. So increasing the input would bring up the dynamics of the crash, etc. but the overall output would decrease to its limit(eliminating a saturated headroom or distortion). Which then gets further manipulated by threshold and the rotating point. (Pulling most of this out of my ass so I'm not sure I'm 100% correct either) On remastering they're trying to do this for the whole program ( how many ever tracks they used) at ONE TIME. Everyone still is running the loudness race, always will. I listened to RM Megadeth last night and it was horrible. The slow slow release just made it sound like it was "breathing". I'm mean his voice was what was setting off the threshold and then guitars would come in (or some percussion) and it was just hushed or mushed, etc. The solos and vocals were fine. It's weird that this came up b/c I just received RM Megadeth and Maiden(# of...) yesterday. Maiden didn't seem too bad. Of course, Steve is very noticeable but so is whatever plate(reverb) they're(M. Birch) is using for Bruce's vox. Haven't listened to RM Operation:Mindcrime yet. I'm not sure about GOTE b/c to be honest I love it but I know it was also made in two days. I know in the liner notes of No Hits...Scott(I believe) talks about that "heady" sound he likes. That, coming full circle, is still being done today but to get remasters as close in dynamics as the original is either not possible b/c of the the medium it was stored on or played back on or would just be ridiciously expensive and mind boggling.

 

[Bass Fellow]

So last night I opened up Operation:Mindcrime and it's remastered in 24-bit technology. Go figure! Sounds great! Also, I opened up Type-O Negative's 'Least Worst of' and saw that it was remastered by George Marino @ Sterling City Studios, NY, NY. Same guy and place as Anthrology was done at. It sounded fine also but I never owned any TON before. Actually, I think I'll trade it if anyone is interested.:Smug:

 

[Drokk]

I don't agree that it's because it's not possible to get the dynamics of the original source material; maybe it isn't, but that's really not my point. Everything being remastered is pushing the whole overall wave very high, to the point where the whole sonic effect is flattened. Compare the original CDs of Maiden to the remasters. To me, sure, the old ones are quieter, but so what? Much more "open", room to breathe. Natural sounding drums. The first tip-off to me that the mastering engineer pushed the waveform is drum sound. System of a Down--every kick, every cymbal crash, mush. Sepultura Chaos AD--beautifully done. But that was the early 90s. A very different time.

This is taken from http://www.johnvestman.com/disease.htm

Catch: When you make a super loud CD, you could be flattening out the punch and muscle of your mixes. The whole effect of a musical peak, like say on a kick drum, is that the waveform surges out over the music. The peak sound has a cool impact that stands up from the other sounds. This is punch that comes from a wider speaker excursion caused by that bigger peak, which means the speaker is actually moving more air... farther - therefore... more punch.

When you flatten out all these peaks by over-compressing or hard limiting and bring up the softer material that is all around those peaks, the speaker excursion (distance it moves) is relatively smaller (in relation to the softer parts) - thereby reducing the punch of the music. Granted, the overall sound is louder coming off the CDR, but the overall sound is flatter and less open sounding.

Most rock/hard rock/metal CDs in the last 5 or more years have been mastered with no range; the lowest wave is pushed up to the limit, flattening it out. I looked at the waveform of Greater of 2 Evils using Audacity, and it confirmed what my ears told me: ZERO dips in the peak wave, absolutely no dynamic range. So if something in the mix gets louder, it comes out sounding distorted; kind of like of static noise.

And what does it matter if it was remastered by George Marino? If I see his name on a remaster, I'm pretty sure it'll be a flat, hot CD.

 

[ZeeZooZum]

I don't agree that it's because it's not possible to get the dynamics of the original source material; maybe it isn't, but that's really not my point. Everything being remastered is pushing the whole overall wave very high, to the point where the whole sonic effect is flattened. Compare the original CDs of Maiden to the remasters. To me, sure, the old ones are quieter, but so what? Much more "open", room to breathe. Natural sounding drums. The first tip-off to me that the mastering engineer pushed the waveform is drum sound. System of a Down--every kick, every cymbal crash, mush. Sepultura Chaos AD--beautifully done. But that was the early 90s. A very different time.

This is taken from http://www.johnvestman.com/disease.htm



Most rock/hard rock/metal CDs in the last 5 or more years have been mastered with no range; the lowest wave is pushed up to the limit, flattening it out. I looked at the waveform of Greater of 2 Evils using Audacity, and it confirmed what my ears told me: ZERO dips in the peak wave, absolutely no dynamic range. So if something in the mix gets louder, it comes out sounding distorted; kind of like of static noise.

And what does it matter if it was remastered by George Marino? If I see his name on a remaster, I'm pretty sure it'll be a flat, hot CD.

I think the key is that you can remaster correctly. You mentioned the Led Zeppelin discs as an example. I would add that the Sabbath box is an improvement over the orginal releases. Also, I think King Crimson did a good job on their new remasters...

 

[Bass Fellow]

I don't agree that it's because it's not possible to get the dynamics of the original source material; maybe it isn't, but that's really not my point. Everything being remastered is pushing the whole overall wave very high, to the point where the whole sonic effect is flattened. Compare the original CDs of Maiden to the remasters. To me, sure, the old ones are quieter, but so what? Much more "open", room to breathe. Natural sounding drums. The first tip-off to me that the mastering engineer pushed the waveform is drum sound. System of a Down--every kick, every cymbal crash, mush. Sepultura Chaos AD--beautifully done. But that was the early 90s. A very different time.

This is taken from http://www.johnvestman.com/disease.htm



Most rock/hard rock/metal CDs in the last 5 or more years have been mastered with no range; the lowest wave is pushed up to the limit, flattening it out. I looked at the waveform of Greater of 2 Evils using Audacity, and it confirmed what my ears told me: ZERO dips in the peak wave, absolutely no dynamic range. So if something in the mix gets louder, it comes out sounding distorted; kind of like of static noise.

And what does it matter if it was remastered by George Marino? If I see his name on a remaster, I'm pretty sure it'll be a flat, hot CD.

Yes, what this guy is saying is that engineers, in the last five years, are trying to master the tracks before they go to the process of mastering. That wasn't an issue I was addressing. I agree also pre-90's REmastering is pretty bad but they're doing it from a master made off of magnetic tape(I think Rolling Stones 'Steel Wheels' was about the time the first DDD rock cd was released). Which is to say it might be a simple minded thing to do just to make it louder thus compatible for current releases. However, ZooZee... you say Sabbath and Zep have some decent ones! Then cool! Also, that Anthrology doesn't sound that bad? I don't believe so either. That was the only thing I was saying about Marino. Maybe they used 24-bit remastering process like Queensryche. Operation:Mindcrime is awesome IMO( just like you're saying Drokk about Chaos A.D.). I think my brain hurts But, I am now a little confused when you say that if "something in the mix gets louder" it gets distorted. Unless the peak wave's limit itself goes into saturation how can a signal under the clip become distorted (unless it's the speaker itself)? Later!

 

[Bass Fellow]

Anyone have a opinion, sound wise, on purchasing the S.O.D. (Speak Eng...) cd as far as the the two different release dates.

 

[Drokk]

But, I am now a little confused when you say that if "something in the mix gets louder" it gets distorted. Unless the peak wave's limit itself goes into saturation how can a signal under the clip become distorted (unless it's the speaker itself)? Later!

Because the peak gets clipped off. A cymbal crash sounds like static noise, and kick drum sounds like mush, drums sound like hitting pillows instead of drums. That's what I'm talking about.

Read this about Rush's last record:

Rip Rowan's Over the Limit

I think we're talking at cross purposes. I do not think that mastering off of analog will give you a worse result! I don't see what you're getting at there. ALL CDs have digital masters; they must, as they are digital. Anyway, I'm talking about levels, plain and simple, regardless of DDD or ADD or AAD. For example, Marino mastered Linkin Park's last recording and turned in 2 versions, one hotter than the other, the hotter one not his preference, and the label picked the hotter one. My point is, there are a lot of good engineers out there, but we're in a paradox where the record industry thinks consumers want things louder and louder, but we wouldn't know any better if they wouldn't keep pushing the limit. So, especially in hard rock and metal, everything is getting pushed beyond the levels of acceptable volume and resulting in what I call "distortion", meaning clipped waves. Every metal remaster I've heard, Maiden, Priest, Megadeth, have ruined the "openness" of the originals. Therefore, I am very, very sceptical that any Anthrax remasters would be worthwhile. Where we are now, many recordings of the last 5 or more years need to be "remastered".

 

[aliasp]

Some killer techy stuff in here guys.