Apogee Ensemble v. MH ULN-2/2882 v. UA Apollo

[MatrixClaw]

So the time has finally come to upgrade. I've started a new job and make some recent sales that allows me to make some significant upgrades and I need to make a decision.

Current setup:

• Core i7 3770K Hackintosh (OSX Mountain Lion) w/ 16GB of RAM, SSD, etc. Top of the line components.
• Digi 003 Factory
• Focusrite Saffire Pro 40
• Behringer ADA8000
• M-Audio DSM3 monitors
• Equator D5 monitors
• Fully treated room w/ traps, broadband absorption & cloud

The Digi/Focusrite/Behringer will all be sold to fund the upgrades.

Uses:

• Mainly recording guitar, bass & vocals (1-2 tracks)
• Occasional live drums (10-12 tracks max), but mostly programmed/triggered
• Metal/Modern Rock/Punk/Acoustic genres

Needs:

• Best conversion possible
• Best built in mic pres
• Driver stability
• 41/48k recording

Apogee Ensemble - Seems like a pretty solid unit, though the lack of controls on the front kind of turns me off. I'm really not big on controlling everything digitally (the less I have to use a mouse and keyboard, the better), but I can deal with it, if it's the best choice. Really like that the pres have a lot of gain on tap - Means I could use an SM7b and ribbons comfortably with it. Only concern is that the Ensemble is getting kind of old and its conversion/pres aren't quite up to the standards of the newer stuff coming out now in the same price range?

Metric Halo ULN-2 2D - Honestly, I've only heard rave reviews about these interfaces. Only concern is I could only expand it to 10 total channels via ADAT, but I've heard the conversion and preamps are stellar on it and ahead of anything else in the price range. The DSP seems like it'd be really cool as well, but I hear it has limitations once you start adding reverb and other heavier plugins. Plenty of gain on the preamps, like the Ensemble.

Metric Halo 2882 2D - Heard great things about these as well, but only 42db of gain on the preamps really concerns me, and having to use Fetheads/Cloudlifters on more than one channel really doesn't appeal to me. I've heard people say the conversion is different between this and the ULN-2, but on their website, it says it uses "1st Generation" technology, just like the ULN-2? Though, the preamp is "1st Generation," while the ULN-2 is 2nd Gen, which I presume means the ULN-2 has at least a slightly better pre.

Universal Audio Apollo - My Sweetwater sales rep keeps raving to me about how great his Apollo is and how it puts the Ensemble to shame, but I'm honestly not so sure. I've heard the converters are the same as the 4-710, which really doesn't excite me (they're alright, but I'm not sure they're quite up to par with the MH stuff...), and I'm sure the pres aren't a 610 at that price. The DSP would be pretty awesome, but since you only get 3 plugins with it, I'm not really excited about having to pay more to use the UAD-2 to its full potential, when I already have a couple grand in great plugins that my computer can run just fine.

Mostly leaning toward either the Ensemble (mostly because the 4 extra line ins could be used with a nice 4 channel pre like the API 3124+) or the ULN-2 at this point, but I honestly would like to hear some people's opinions on them all, especially now that more people probably have experience with the Apollo.

I'll be pairing whatever interface I end up getting with an Audient ASP008 and I'm hoping to start piecing together an SCA rack/API Lunchbox/API 3124+ as paychecks start to come in.

Alternatively, I was looking into getting a PCI card and running some converters into it like the RME ADI-8, Apogee AD16x, maybe even a Mytek 8x192 w/ FW, but that'd leave me with no preamps and more money I'd have to spend, plus I wouldn't be able to use it for mobile recording if I want to record live shows when I mix my friend's band. Not interested in the RME UFX - I've owned one previously and don't really want one again; I was also really interested in the A&H ZED R16, but as much as I'd love to have all the features of it, I don't know where I'd put it, because the 003 I have barely fits on my desk as is

*edit* I also have the chance to get a Soundcraft Ghost 32 LE for a good price, to which I could go with a PCI setup with separate converters. I'm just afraid it's going to cost more than what I'm paying to get it all setup and running. Not to mention, I'm sure the pres aren't anywhere near as good as the ULN-2, so I'd have to buy all separate outboard pres, which is going to get expensive

 

[yakko]

Read this to death . http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear...converter-da-ad-loopback-shootout-thread.html

 

[MatrixClaw]

Read this to death . http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear...converter-da-ad-loopback-shootout-thread.html

I'm aware of that thread, and I appreciate the link, but all that really tells me is the transparency of the converters, which honestly means nothing. The fact that the ULN2, Apollo, FF400, 800 and UFX, as well as the Alpha Link and Liquid Saffire 56 all rate "lower" than my current interface tells me the "transparency" has little to nothing to do with the overall sound quality of the conversion; as several professional converters are ranked pretty low. Not to mention, it doesn't take into consideration the quality of the preamps, which are quite important to me as well.

 

[006]

I can't speak on the converters other than to say I would assume all of them are good quality, no personal experience with any of them.

The attractive feature of the Apollo, for me, is being able to track and have basically a full mix going on the inputs for monitoring, thinking about drums here mainly, with no latency/CPU load while tracking the dry sources to disk. It only comes with 3 plug-ins, as you said, but those 3 (eq, comp and I forget the other one) would be all I need for that purpose. Just a cool thing I know I would love the shit out of if I had it.

I/O is definitely one of the priorities I would be considering, you seem to be. That should narrow it down somewhat.

 

[egan.]

From my perspective you've outgrown the ULN before you even start. By all accounts the conversion is excellent (I have not heard them) but with only 2 A/D and 4 of D/A you are getting very little of it. Also, I believe since there is only a single ADAT in you are maxed at 8 channels of 44.1 there.

Between the Ensemble and the Apollo I'd probably go Apollo for the greater expandability and the plugin bonus and the fact that it's not likely to get phased out anytime soon (the Ensemble as you said is getting towards EOL).

 

[MatrixClaw]

Good point on the I/O, A/D & D/A. Since I'm mostly recording only 1-2 channels, that's why I was heavily considering the ULN-2, which seems to be the highest quality of them all, but also has the least options, which means less expansion. The ULN-2 is only capable of 10 channels with its 2 pres and 8 channels of ADAT, while all the rest can support 16. I don't necessarily NEED more than 10 right now, but the option of having more is always good, so I can setup extra mics as reinforcement on a kit. I guess the main issue with the ULN-2 is it might sound great, but it's only 2 channels of A/D and 2 good pres, anything added via ADAT won't benefit. However, it's also the cheapest option, and would free up more of my budget for upgrading to nice pres more quickly.

The Apollo seems to be the latest and greatest, and pretty future-proof, but I'm honestly really weary about its conversion and pre quality. The tests of it against a Duet 2 on Gearslutz are very favorable to the Apollo, but against the RME UFX, it fell short IMO. I've owned a UFX in the past, and if the Apollo is of lesser quality on the converters and pres, then I'm not sure the high price tag is really worth it. The main problem seems to be that not many people have experience with them yet, so people seem to either be completely raving about it, or bashing it for not holding up to others in its price range. Hard to really tell what is fact and what is just purely speculation, and since no one carries them in stock around here, it's not like I can try one out to make a decision.

I guess at this point I'd really be either going with the Apollo DUO, holding out for Apogee to hopefully release a Thunderbolt version of the Ensemble, or MAYBE just going with an A&H ZED R16, but I really don't have the room for one, and 16 pres and EQ in the same price range as the Apollo/Ensemble/UFX kind of scares me. I've heard some REALLY favorable opinions on the R16, but most of these people don't have experience with others in the price range and I can really only take their opinion with a grain of salt.