Apogee Mini Me or API A2D?

[Skinny Viking]

Yo guys

ok I know I know, I've broached this subject before but I really need some guidance / advice here ....

This is my setup which is not changing in the foreseeable future:

PC - Rain Solstice
DAW - PT LE 7.4
Interface - Mbox

I will have absolutely no need for anything more than 2 inputs for recording because I never intend to do drums. The Mbox is shit, I know this and I'm looking for something to run into the Mbox through SPDIF that will give me better mic pres and converters. I can get an A2D for like $1500 or possibly the Apogee for like $700. Both of the have a SPDIF out so that handles that. What it all comes down to is performance. I just want something that I'll not be able to blame for my shitty guitar tone ... great pres and converters.

I'd love to get something with a noticeable overall improvement for my sound without killing myself money wise

Please let me know what you think so I can move on one or the other

Thanks guys!

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

With that setup, a $1500 preamp won't give you a $1500 improvement. Seriously. You could get something like a Profire for far less, and you really can't blame it's preamps or converters for a bad guitar tone.

I'm not being a dick here. I've tracked through quite a bit of gear, varying from 8 channels of Digidesign 003 or Octopre's to 12 channels of API 3124's combined with UA8110's, or from Digipre's to all-valve consoles, and I feel pretty comfortable when I say that you're wasting money at this point if you spend that much on an A2D expecting such a noticeable difference.

If you don't feel happy with your guitar tones, start troubleshooting the chain in this order: Song -> Playing technique -> Guitar/pickups -> Amp/stompboxes -> Cab -> Mic placement -> Mic -> Mic placement again -> Room -> Preamp -> Converter.

 

[Skinny Viking]

With that setup, a $1500 preamp won't give you a $1500 improvement. Seriously. You could get something like a Profire for far less, and you really can't blame it's preamps or converters for a bad guitar tone.

I'm not being a dick here. I've tracked through quite a bit of gear, varying from 8 channels of Digidesign 003 or Octopre's to 12 channels of API 3124's combined with UA8110's, or from Digipre's to all-valve consoles, and I feel pretty comfortable when I say that you're wasting money at this point if you spend that much on an A2D expecting such a noticeable difference.

If you don't feel happy with your guitar tones, start troubleshooting the chain in this order: Song -> Playing technique -> Guitar/pickups -> Amp/stompboxes -> Cab -> Mic placement -> Mic -> Mic placement again -> Room -> Preamp -> Converter.

I was being a bit flippant with blaming my guitar tone on the Mbox entirely

I don't take anything you're saying as you being a dick. You guys are WAY more knowledgeable about this shit than I but I can say this ... it has nothing to do with my playing technique or my guitar, its mostly from NOT micing a cab

However, I'm just looking for a small setup thats gonna work great, be an improvement in pres & converters so that I don't have to think about that part of it anymore ... leaving me free to work on cab mic technique when I get that end of things setup

I just want the Mbox as a dongle and trust me, I'm looking at all options (have a few more now thanks to Anssi) ... not just looking for a reason to dump $1500 to say I did, know what I mean?

Anssi had mentioned the Audient Mico as another option and on sweetwater it looks like I could get one for the same price as the apogee so at this point I'd be curious as to which of those two is a better option. He also mentioned the RME ADI 2 but I'd still need to get a good pre to go with it and would end up spending something close to the API anyway at that point

 

[Skinny Viking]

fuck, maybe I should just get an mbox 3 pro ... don't know if anyone has tried one but some reviews I've read said the thing is WAY better sounding in pres & converters

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I was being a bit flippant with blaming my guitar tone on the Mbox entirely

I don't take anything you're saying as you being a dick. You guys are WAY more knowledgeable about this shit than I but I can say this ... it has nothing to do with my playing technique or my guitar, its mostly from NOT micing a cab

However, I'm just looking for a small setup thats gonna work great, be an improvement in pres & converters so that I don't have to think about that part of it anymore ... leaving me free to work on cab mic technique when I get that end of things setup

I just want the Mbox as a dongle and trust me, I'm looking at all options (have a few more now thanks to Anssi) ... not just looking for a reason to dump $1500 to say I did, know what I mean?

Anssi had mentioned the Audient Mico as another option and on sweetwater it looks like I could get one for the same price as the apogee so at this point I'd be curious as to which of those two is a better option. He also mentioned the RME ADI 2 but I'd still need to get a good pre to go with it and would end up spending something close to the API anyway at that point

Ah, I totally understand. Never really doubted your playing, I've heard your stuff and seems like you have that area covered! I just wanted to make sure you won't spend such amounts on something you're not that impressed by in the end. Been there, I'm the master of stupid purchases

I haven't got any experience with the Mico, but I've tracked with an ASP008 and it's a very decent unit. From the gear I have used, I'd recommend you to check out a Profire2626 (the 610 is probably just fine but I haven't used one myself) and getting the PT9 upgrade for some great price/quality-ratio. The preamps naturally won't sound like a hard-driven API, but they're clean and have loads of gain on tap, which will take you a long way. If you want to keep the Mbox+PT7.4 combo, the Mico is probably just fine!

 

[Skinny Viking]

Been there, I'm the master of stupid purchases

and if I can help it you'll keep that title!

but I completely get what you're saying and agree with you ... I'm more than happy to spend a lot less as long as I know what I'm paying for will be an improvement ... nothing is gonna make it sound perfect just because it was expensive. I'm just trying to take a couple of the more important things out of the equation

thanks you though, for jumping in and throwing some pointers at me .. its appreciated

 

[ahjteam]

I would go for Mbox3 or the Mico that I suggested.

 

[JeffTD]

I would honestly upgrade interface/jump to PT9 - the D/A alone on the MBox is going to ruin any benefit the API will provide, IMO.

 

[Eric Beam]

If you only need 2 channels the API is great. It's on-board A/D is top notch. Will pairup perfectly with your mbox spdif.
I setup a mobile rig for a guitarist with that very setup.
The mbox will have nothing to do with your sound with this setup. It's just a spdif hole with a usb cable.
But a software upgrade would be the icing on the cake tho. But your audio path quality won't change.
The API will give you both clean/overdriveable pres + conversion. The apogee is rather uninspiring in comparison in terms of "sound" & flexibility.

 

[Tachy]

The api is a great unit, can't live without it now.

 

[gabriel g.]

I also read very good reviews about the mbox3.

I would go for mbox3 with pt9 and an audient mico.
I own the mico and I must say its a first class preamp.
it has a super low noisefloor and a lot of gain.
it is realy one of that units were you press record and get the good sound instantly. I use it for oh, guitars, bass and vocals.

And I also have metric halo preamps but I prefer the audient.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Thanks for all of your input guys, its appreciated

PT 9 upgrade isn't gonna happen yet anyway just due to me being on XP and to be honest, I'm quite happy with 7.4 at the moment. It does everything I need with no issues and I have yet to find an area where its lacking for my requirements. I don't really do anything much with midi and so on and my setup is fucking rock solid in all aspects of its performance.

@ Jeff ... I had asked about the DA end of things and while I know just from what I've read that the MBox has shitty converters, I was lead to believe that the AD is actually far more important. For instance, if I take a song from a cd that I know sounds really good and pull it into PT, as long as it still sounds good then my DA is sufficient for now. Actually capturing the audio through better pres and AD converters will make more of an overall difference. I might be wrong and please correct me if I am ... that was just what I had read on here through various threads and such.

As for the API ... I'm absolutely confident that it would sound great and has fantastic converters and all but the more I've talked about it with Anssi and a couple others the more I realize that is probably just overkill at the moment. So far I have yet to hear anybody rave about the apogee so that being the case its looking like either Mbox 3 or Audient is winning. I just need to find out if the MBox 3 works with PT 7.4 which I have a feeling it should since it supports XP. If not, well the Audient is looking pretty tasty and hell, if the MBox 3 DOES work with 7.4 the audient could be a nice addition to that as well a little down the road. Either way, I'm pretty much writing off the API as I think the benefits just don't out weigh the cost at the moment.

Thanks again guys ... if anyone knows off hand about compatibility with the MBox 3 and PT LE 7.4 please feel free to share ... off to the DUC now to see if I can track that info down as well

Cheers!

 

[Scott C.]

I have the mini me. it's awesome for conversion/soft limit and to use as a master clock. I still prefer it's converters/clock over my 96io, the pre's are good but not mind blowing. honestly a great mic pre will make a bigger difference than the converters. I compared the mbox pre's to my amek/neve cib (through the mbox line in)and it was night and day difference. especially on gtr/vox.... adding the minime for conversion made a big difference too but not as drastic of a change.

if you want to save some cash pick up something like the gap pre73, I'll be willing to bet it will make a big difference

in the end you really can't go wrong with a high end pre like the api, If you buy used you will have no problem getting your money back on it if you sell it. the neve I bought 10 years ago is still worth what I paid for it.... can't say that about anything else I bought that long ago;-)

 

[JeffTD]

@ Jeff ... I had asked about the DA end of things and while I know just from what I've read that the MBox has shitty converters, I was lead to believe that the AD is actually far more important. For instance, if I take a song from a cd that I know sounds really good and pull it into PT, as long as it still sounds good then my DA is sufficient for now. Actually capturing the audio through better pres and AD converters will make more of an overall difference. I might be wrong and please correct me if I am ... that was just what I had read on here through various threads and such.

You're right in that aspect, especially if you're in an untreated room or your monitoring situation isn't great, but the big problem you'll run into is when reamping, if you do that at all.

PT9 suggestion was just to ditch the Digi/M-Audio interfaces.

 

[AndrewPGlover]

If you are interested in buying an A2D I happen to be selling mine to get an Alpha Link. Hit me up on facebook/email if you're interested.

 

[Skinny Viking]

You're right in that aspect, especially if you're in an untreated room or your monitoring situation isn't great, but the big problem you'll run into is when reamping, if you do that at all.

PT9 suggestion was just to ditch the Digi/M-Audio interfaces.

I hear ya man ... yeah reamping if done at all would be done at my buddy's actual studio ... no means to do that at my place anyway

Thanks again for the insight though ... I'm keeping notes on all of this

 

[Skinny Viking]

Weird

so just heard beack from my sweetwater guy who just heard from his avid rep that the mbox 3 won't work with LE 7.4 ... only version 8

Not sure how I feel about this cause I've heard a lot of negative things about LE 8 but so far the consensus is that 7.4 was absolutely rock solid which in my experience so far, has been the case

I've seen a few people here mention that the 1st version of LE 8 was good but the updates were shit, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Jaymz]

I own the Mico and can safely say its a quality bit of gear! Just thought id chime in there

 

[yakko]

If you don't feel happy with your guitar tones, start troubleshooting the chain in this order: Song -> Playing technique -> Guitar/pickups -> Amp/stompboxes -> Cab -> Mic placement -> Mic -> Mic placement again -> Room -> Preamp -> Converter.

+1111 Jarkko I'll use your words with big puntos on my studio's wall if you give the permission.

 

[PaulSOCW]

if you want to save some cash pick up something like the gap pre73, I'll be willing to bet it will make a big difference

in the end you really can't go wrong with a high end pre like the api, If you buy used you will have no problem getting your money back on it if you sell it. the neve I bought 10 years ago is still worth what I paid for it.... can't say that about anything else I bought that long ago;-)

I recently got myself a pair of Golden Age Project Pre's.
Great pre's for the price.
Ive replaced the input and output transformers with carnhill's in one of them so far and upgraded the capacitors which made it sound even better.

Also got some 500series 312 modules from classicapi which i finished buiding just after xmas.
Very very impressed with these so far. They've made a noticable improvement on anything ive put thru them compared to any pre ive used in the past.