ATTN Vegans

F.B.I. Watched Activist Groups, New Files Show


Published: December 20, 2005 WASHINGTON, Dec. 19 - Counterterrorism agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted numerous surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations that involved, at least indirectly, groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief, newly disclosed agency records show.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/p...xnnlx=1135091028-3n4ZOjc6hXMb#secondParagraph


F.B.I. officials said Monday that their investigators had no interest in monitoring political or social activities and that any investigations that touched on advocacy groups were driven by evidence of criminal or violent activity at public protests and in other settings.


After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general, loosened restrictions on the F.B.I.'s investigative powers, giving the bureau greater ability to visit and monitor Web sites, mosques and other public entities in developing terrorism leads. The bureau has used that authority to investigate not only groups with suspected ties to foreign terrorists, but also protest groups suspected of having links to violent or disruptive activities.


But the documents, coming after the Bush administration's confirmation that President Bush had authorized some spying without warrants in fighting terrorism, prompted charges from civil rights advocates that the government had improperly blurred the line between terrorism and acts of civil disobedience and lawful protest.


One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a "Vegan Community Project." Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's "semi-communistic ideology."
 
In all honesty, is anyone really surprised anymore? Democracy is the veil behind which the rich upperclass folks operate to protect their own interests while giving everyone else the illusion of autonomy or power to keep us satisfied. I'm in no way anti-democratic, just in America right now, professional politicians who operate solely on the behalf of corporate interests of their own or of their supporting lobbyists have turned america effectively into an oligarchy. Even worse, because congress is packed with Republicans who always vote partyline, with the exception of McCain, its even more like a Tyranny. The thing that makes this most depressing is it has happened before, in Ancient Greek History. Sad how we still can't learn from the wrongs of the past. We continue to exist in a state of moral relativism where people no longer consider what is right or ethical but what can I get away with and the president's illegal wire-tapping is a perfect example of that.
 
it figures. greenpeace is on this list also and i think probably like at least 10 other places i volunteer for or am a member of (like the ACLU) i can only imagine they might come to the house and frisk freddy and blue (the turtle) in the middle of the night, or tap blue's phone line... :cry:
 
Alex, you no doubt realize that the only way to stabilize a despotic government and prevent constant revolution from within is to distract the public from your every deed.

Also, can a despotic government be just? For my arguement's sake, there are people who think Saddam isn't evil and I'm sure you can agree with me that there is no such thing as a totally objective moral and ethical right. Though I am against the current tyranny of the minority of rich white people, should we really cede all governmental control to one singular ultimate authority? That's an even further consolidation of power, which would drive a nepotism and favoritism already seem in most modern dictatorships. Would it not be a better idea to wrest the power from the minority and distribute amongst a greater, hopefully qualified, majority? Meh, that's all an ideal, I suppose your vision gets closer to the reality of things. Let's just hope the next dictator of America has goals and ideals closer to my own and is preferably a cousin of mine. At least that way I can be a benefactor of a broken system.
 
All Hail Randall Graves
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I'm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class, especially because I rule.
 
no I believe in a categorical imperative type moral objective, but with lots of grey areas surrounding it, and an inability to perfectly perceive that objective due to human failings.

your opposition to a dictator is largely practical (and completely accurate) and not really ideological. practically, power corrupts, blah blah blah, and a dictator invariably ends up worse than a democracy. that doesn't mean that a tyranny-of-the-majority democracy made up of 51% Southerners doesn't totally fucking suck.
 
All I'm asking for is a test before the vote that requires the voter to display a basic knowledge of the issues of importance in the current election as determined by a panel of political scientists. If you score poorly, your vote counts less. With the limitless availability of information on current events, I deem this is entirely fair.