Autotune while tracking?

[The-Zeronaut]

What are your thoughts on using some kind of tuning (autotune/reatune/izotope´s Nectar) while tracking (not recording it of course) but for the vocalist to listen to while singing?

Do you think it helps?
Do you know any scenario in where it would be a good idea to use it?
Do you think its stupid and i should be banned just for considering it?

 

[mva801]

I tune while tracking all the time. Trying to sing harmonies to a vocal that isn't quite in tune is just asking for a train wreck. Once you get good initial takes/ comps, tune them, then track any double/ harmonies. Will make life much easier when layering.

 

[JeffTD]

I know of a pretty big dude who has vocalists track with the Autotune in the non-graph mode (set up scale beforehand, of course) running, and when it triggers a wrong note he has them retry the take. Basically guarantees that the singer will stay within a set parameter and that the take will be easily tuneable after the fact in graph mode.

 

[mva801]

I know of a pretty big dude who has vocalists track with the Autotune in the non-graph mode (set up scale beforehand, of course) running, and when it triggers a wrong note he has them retry the take. Basically guarantees that the singer will stay within a set parameter and that the take will be easily tuneable after the fact in graph mode.

I feel like you'd need Autotune in TDM to do that. It introduces a pretty big latency in normal operation.

A good idea nonetheless. Maybe I'll give that a go one day. I usually just run it in the graph mode after I comp each verse/ chorus then print. Then start layering if needed/ wanted.

 

[BLUElightCory]

I'm sorry, but as both a singer and a producer, using Autotune on the actual vocal as it's being performed sounds like a horrible idea. It would be hugely distracting to most vocalists, and it puts the focus on pitch over feel/emotion.

I can see it being useful in the situation that JeffTD mentioned IF it's only audible to the engineer (via an aux or something like that) and not audible to the singer.

I can also see it making sense if you're going for a noticeably auto-tuned sound; that way the singer can play with the effect and make it react the way they want.

Otherwise, just no.

 

[JeffTD]

Nah it's audible to the singer, too. We're talking metalcore shit, not good clean singing.

 

[DavePiatek]

I feel like you'd need Autotune in TDM to do that. It introduces a pretty big latency in normal operation.

A good idea nonetheless. Maybe I'll give that a go one day. I usually just run it in the graph mode after I comp each verse/ chorus then print. Then start layering if needed/ wanted.

I don't have any of the newer versions of Autotune, but RTAS version 5 worked in real time with no latency.

 

[Max Morton]

Just thinking of it made my brain hurt. A singer here.
But seriously speaking, I think it may work if organized properly. I'm lucky to understand the intonation and all that stuff without software, and we often work on backing vocals together with the singer. But damn me if I haven't thought of putting a guitar tuner software into the chain just to see the clarity of intonation. Never really needed it though.

 

[Keregioz]

Do you think it helps?

No.

Do you know any scenario in where it would be a good idea to use it?

No. Well, what Jeff said could be useful in certain situations I guess, I would never do it though.

Do you think its stupid

Yes.

and i should be banned just for considering it?

Yes.


I don't see how making the singer think he is hitting the right notes would help. Also, I really don't trust autotune to tune the vocals automatically in real time, I always do it manually (with melodyne which I think is much better).

 

[smy1]

Stupid question: why does anyone need Autotune to tell them that the vocals are off pitch, when your ear tells you that already?!?

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

Stupid question: why does anyone need Autotune to tell them that the vocals are off pitch, when your ear tells you that already?!?

I think it's the same line of thought for people who need need to edit drums to grid, because they can see the off-timing, and think that snapping things to grid makes them 'right'.

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ thats goofy, sorry but it is

some drummers will need to be edited to the grid because they simply can't hold time properly ... forget about what happens during a couple measures of fast double bass work a lot of time, I'm talking about the speeding up / slowing down to the point where they actually step in or out of the next measure, badly

and then the other side of thing ... the guitarists are at home tracking their guitar parts to the ezdrummer / guitar pro drums they used for writing and the drummer attempted to emulate. same for bass, keyboards, whatever. Try and get THAT shit to work together if you haven't edited the drums to a grid

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

^ thats goofy, sorry but it is

some drummers will need to be edited to the grid because they simply can't hold time properly ... forget about what happens during a couple measures of fast double bass work a lot of time, I'm talking about the speeding up / slowing down to the point where they actually step in or out of the next measure, badly

and then the other side of thing ... the guitarists are at home tracking their guitar parts to the ezdrummer / guitar pro drums they used for writing and the drummer attempted to emulate. same for bass, keyboards, whatever. Try and get THAT shit to work together if you haven't edited the drums to a grid

While I do agree with you partially, personally I think it's goofy to think that 'edited' and 'edited to grid' are synonumous. There's a pretty big difference in editing to grid and editing the tracks so that they seem to be played by an actual drummer, preferably with some skills..

Quoting Daniel Bergstrand: "Now that's a fine looking snare track".

 

[Skinny Viking]

the better the drummer, the better and more natural the editing results ... to grid or otherwise

its when you have to turn chicken shit into chicken salad that you start getting more mechanical results which, depending on the music style, can still be fine.

EDIT: apologies for steering this away from the original topic

the vocal tuning thing ... much of it depends on the style of the material. Radio pop / rock type stuff is usually going to require the vocals to be absolutely and precisely in tune, especially when any backing vocals come into play. On their own, a lead vocal might be close enough for horseshoes to where you listen and nothing pokes out immediately but when you start stacking 12 more vocal tracks on top all doing various harmonies its just par the course these days to have them locked in tuning as well as for timing.

like my drum edit comment above, of course the better the vocalist and vocal take, the more natural the end result will be.

 

[MetalSound]

... not good clean singing.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Stupid question: why does anyone need Autotune to tell them that the vocals are off pitch, when your ear tells you that already?!?

some people don't have a good sense of pitch. They may feel a part sounds fine but everyone else is groaning. Put it this way, I've worked with way more singers that have that "Nailed it!" look on their face after a take as opposed to the ones who say "let me try again, I know I can get it better" and I know which of the two is gonna need the tuning more, even if they don't

 

[BLUElightCory]

Stupid question: why does anyone need Autotune to tell them that the vocals are off pitch, when your ear tells you that already?!?

This is not a stupid question, it's probably the best question in this thread. The sad fact is that many musicians use technology as a crutch, and don't want to put in the work to be actually good at what they do, as opposed to being well represented with the help of digital editing. Once they get into the studio, it's usually too late for us to be able to really do anything about it, so the tools come out.

I know most of us have been in this situation, but think for a second about how silly the concept of "good enough to tune" really is.

 

[mva801]

This is not a stupid question, it's probably the best question in this thread. The sad fact is that many musicians use technology as a crutch, and don't want to put in the work to be actually good at what they do, as opposed to being well represented with the help of digital editing. Once they get into the studio, it's usually too late for us to be able to really do anything about it, so the tools come out.

I know most of us have been in this situation, but think for a second about how silly the concept of "good enough to tune" really is.

I think that's the boat most of us are in. Would we all rather be recording Jesse from Killswitch or Jonas form Katatonia? Yes. But they aren't the ones on my doorstep with money. I won't hesitate to tune something if it has a good vibe, tone, delivery and timing. We usually are not working with someone who can fix things in a take or two.

I have also used auto tune to help me recognize if something is in pitch or not. I started as a drummer, and one with a horrible sense of pitch at that. I could always tell when something wasn't really "great", but with no experience at a melodic instrument, it was tough to tell. Now, auto tune actually helped a lot in this case because I could graph it out, SEE where it was off, and listen to both ways a bunch of times to actually help me LEARN how to better tell by ear. You can also slightly raise or lower the pitch to help recognize how things sound when they're just slightly off.

If you use it as more of a specialty tool instead of a crutch, it's quite helpful.

And you never know. Maybe if you put auto tune on somebody while they're singing, it would act like a guide vocal and give them a target to hit. I use guide piano/ synth/ vocal tracks all the time to help singer hit a certain note. Never really know til you try.

 

[cfh11]

We're talking metalcore shit, not good clean singing.

hahaha

 

[The-Zeronaut]

I think that some of you misunderstood me...
I meant to imply that the autotune was TO HELP the vocalist sing better and to be easier FOR HIM to hear when he´s "out".
I dont have the best ears in the world but at the the very least i can hear when something is out of tune
A good vocalist inst going to need any of this...but i meant this to be an aid for the not-so-good one...
you know...that kind of musician that when you ask them in what key signature is the song they look at you like
you just asked them to explain to you the solution to the international economic crisis .....
in Chinese...
while dancing naked...