Bach Ripoff - Fool's Paradise

[the_satanic_rabbit]

Do we have to keep bringing this shit up?!
goddamn, use the search tool.

 

[SyXified]

I'm not saying this to argue with anyone or express a particular stance on the use of classical music in SyX songs, but there is a viewpoint not being represented here that is worth noting:

1. Nearly every single classical piece borrows a good deal of its thematic material from sources. If you ever bother to look into the history of a classical symphony, you'll find a list of 'this theme borrowed from this, and the next theme from this". Tons of classical works are based on arrangements of traditional folk songs or art songs of the era or previous ones. There is really only a handful of composers who were completely original, and a lot more works than you probably realize are variations on existant themes. So if its weak for SyX to rip off themes from classical composers and not credit them, keep in mind many of those themes are uncredited rip offs in the first place.

2. There were certain song forms established in the classical era, and on occasion SyX following those forms sounds like a rip off when it really isn't. For example, while Prelude on V is blatently Verdi's requiem, the Lacrymosa section is JUST a Lacrymosa section. You can find a million songs that have a lacrymosa section that sounds more like Mozart's Requiem than the X one. A lacrymosa section was established as supposed to have that slow tempo solemn feel and the lyrics were set as well. Same deal with the Dies Irae, Kyrie, Benidictus sections. They all had very rigid form and a lot of them sounded similar as a result.

 

[Yngvai X]

For example, while Prelude on V is blatently Verdi's requiem, the Lacrymosa section is JUST a Lacrymosa section. You can find a million songs that have a lacrymosa section that sounds more like Mozart's Requiem than the X one. A lacrymosa section was established as supposed to have that slow tempo solemn feel and the lyrics were set as well. Same deal with the Dies Irae, Kyrie, Benidictus sections. They all had very rigid form and a lot of them sounded similar as a result.

Thats a good point, except the Lacrymosa in Death of Balance *is* taken from Mozart's Lacrymosa. If you can't even hear that, this was one of the peices I spoke to Romeo about using once and he did say "well, we didn't bother crediting that cause we figured *everyones* heard Mozart's Lacrymosa" hehehe.

 

[BastrdDrmr]

The Four Seasons is one of my all time favorite classical peices, and I've transcribed parts of it for guitar. I don't hear Summer *at all* in Inferno. For one thing, Inferno is written in Phrygian Dominant, which was a tonality not used in Baroque times at all, plus theres alternating measures of 7/8 and 5/4 in there...also not in the 3rd movement of Summer.

I know what part you're thinking of, but I'd hardly call it a lift from the 3rd movement of summer. Possibly an influence? Romeo describes the intro as "moto perpetuo-esque" in the limited edition Odyssey liners, so I'd be hesitant to even say that.

I always thought Inferno was influenced by Yngwie's trilogy suite.... it's nearly identical except for the time changes.

 

[acejhb]

Yeah, the open g string phygian thing in inferno is very similar to trilogy suite, I agree with matt on not hearing the connection between summer and inferno, and I'd also like to point out that when a theme from another composer was used, it often appears in the name of the tune, ie "variation on a theme by blank", so very often than not "props" to the original composer where generally given.

 

[control-denied777]

damnatin game's intro is the copy cat of carl phillip emanuel bach's "solfegettio".by the way MJR is not the first person to ripp classic composers yngwie is the biggest ripper all time,in my opinion its ok to ripp classic composers i mean if u can play such a hard composition then u deserve to use it somewhere in your music

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Yeah, good thing I didn't mention the fact that A Fool's Paradise quotes Bach like 5 times.

Haha, I'm just being a dick. Anyway, I showed a bunch of SX stuff to an old teacher of mine who is a huge classical music fan (actually went to school for music and ended up an English teacher). He thought it was awesome to hear the classics in a new context, and agreed that "The masters would be proud." I think it's great.

Control-Denied777: Yeah, well Yngwie is awesome.

 

[Rose Immortal]

I am glad you see it that way. This used to be standard procedure back in the days when the composers originally wrote. And these days, it's not just SymX that's done things like this, too. What about Procul Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale"? Didn't that tune have a MAJOR classical allusion as well?

And am I the only one who thinks SymX should NOT list their references on their albums? I truly think uncovering them should be left up to the fans. To give it away would take away a bit of the mystery and fun, I think...

 

[MC Pee pants]

I totally agree with you Rose Immortal. I don't mind at all that they use classical music, and to just tell us every reference they make would ruin half of the fun of listening to their music. Classical composers did the same thing, like Brahms. Who took the final melody of his "Academic Festival Overture" from a medieval students song called "Gaudeamus Igitur". To my knowledge it isn't posted on the piece, someone made the connection, but he didn't just blatantly say "I took this final melody from another song". It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, using music that's public domain...but what do I know, I'm still in high school.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Well, I for one would like to know what the guys in SX wrote and what they didn't. It actually makes it pretty interesting, the way they fit pieces so smoothly into their songs.

I always thought Inferno was influenced by Yngwie's trilogy suite.... it's nearly identical except for the time changes.

...I can see "influenced," but nowhere near "identical." Yeah, it's in phrygian dominant and has the open string thing going... but that sounds like about 40 neoclassical metal songs.

 

[dargormudshark]

I like it too sometimes, I just want to hear what great ochestrations the musicians come up with themselves. Especially Romeo!

 

[Rose Immortal]

But aren't there original orchestrations in some places on their albums? I'm not an expert, though. I mean, I do know some classical music, but I definitely don't know every piece SymX has used, so I could be wrong...

 

[soundgarden]

The Divine Wings = Mass in B minor by JS Bach + Mars by Gustav Holst.

Hope this help.

Whenever I listen to Divine Wings I always say to myself "where the hell did I hear this before". Yesterday right after I listened to DWoT I put Holst's "The Planets" on and as soon as Mars started I was like "OHHHHHHHH"

 

[Strychnos]

We all are in agreement that Romeo really wears his influences on his sleeve. As for the fact that some people find SymX not listing which melodies are lifted from classical pieces, erm, objectionable, let's just put it this way: the fact alone that you can incorporate clasical melodies in your songs is a feat in itself. They've been doing this(leaving the fans to find out for themselves) on purpose IMO, so their fanbase could be inspired to listen to the masters.

as my friend said in my native tongue when he read this thread: Tangina, di naman nila kailangan gawin yun(referring to blatantly citing which melodies were lifted from classical pieces). Wala nang matutuklasan ang tao sa music nila, wala nang maiiwan sa imahinasyon.

as for what that means, feel free to PM me. ^_^

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Good thing someone brought THIS thread back.

 

[Shredboy]

It happens in every genre of music.. sitting here making a big deal of Romeo's influences is absurd. Listen to Eric Claptons stuff from early Cream and so forth, a couple of his solos are note for note copies of BB kings stuff. Like i said.. it happens in every genre of music, Blues players have been doing it for years... Look at modern day Hip Hop and sampling ...

I fail to see how Romeo incorporating his favorite things from classical composers is any different than any other artist out there. Most multi million record sales artists dont even write there own music.. go pick on them )

 

[Rose Immortal]

I really think Romeo ought to rip off some Spanish classical guitar pieces.

I think it would make an interesting new challenge to his playing, and it would also be interesting to see what kind of arrangements the rest of the band would come up to, to fit with it.