Being a metalhead is a disability in Sweden

[Justin G]

I'm glad this thread is so civil and all, and I love your posts in this thread, I really do man. But let's be real, this is a load of BS bro. Health insurance companies don't care what your socio-economic status is, the hospital will nuke your credit into oblivion if you're too poor to pay the bill. I know, it's happened to a very dear friend of mine.

This is true. Even a relatively simple knee surgery killed my then-uninsured younger brother's credit rating for years.

 

[Bamafan]

Playing devil's advocate here, but I am amazed at how many patients complain about the cost of their health care but spend $10 a day on cigarettes.

 

[adaher]

I'm glad this thread is so civil and all, and I love your posts in this thread, I really do man. But let's be real, this is a load of BS bro. Health insurance companies don't care what your socio-economic status is, the hospital will nuke your credit into oblivion if you're too poor to pay the bill. I know, it's happened to a very dear friend of mine.

No question, but that's the financial side of it. I was referring to the health care itself. I mentioned earlier that the main advantage of single payer is that you don't have to stress about your finances.

Playing devil's advocate here, but I am amazed at how many patients complain about the cost of their health care but spend $10 a day on cigarettes.

It's an interesting thing about human nature, we bitch about the cost of necessities, but gladly shell out big bucks for entertainment. I'd bet a lot of PP attendees without health insurance will sooner shell for PP than for a physical. And if you include the travel and hotel costs, a physical is a lot cheaper even without insurance. Heck, some PP attendees spend more money on CDs alone than they would pay for a physical.

 

[adaher]

This is true. Even a relatively simple knee surgery killed my then-uninsured younger brother's credit rating for years.

How long did he wait for the knee surgery? I'd be interested in comparing that to the average wait time in Canada for knee surgery.

 

[Justin G]

This is true. Even a relatively simple knee surgery killed my then-uninsured younger brother's credit rating for years.

How long did he wait for the knee surgery? I'd be interested in comparing that to the average wait time in Canada for knee surgery.

It wasn't so much a matter of a doctor telling him "you need surgery but we can't give it to you yet" as it was him knowing he couldn't afford it and trying to put it off. Once he resigned himself to the procedure it happened pretty quickly. A day or two to schedule it, and a decade to pay for it.

 

[Prog_Please]

Playing devil's advocate here, but I am amazed at how many patients complain about the cost of their health care but spend $10 a day on cigarettes.

I totally agree. That drives me nuts!!! My grandfather died of smoking related complications and his medical bill for the last several months was slightly over a million dollars!! All paid for by insurance. I loved my grandpa and everything, but seriously smoking cost the taxpayers a million dollars! And he's just one dude.

* end mini rant*

 

[edgeofthorns]

Very high, but like I said, to them it's absolutely worth it because, they actually care about other human beings, unlike the seflish, anti-altruistic libertarian philosophy that plagues this country's mentality.

I apologize for offending anyone, and I don't like airing my personal issues over the internet, but this issue is very personal to me.

I'm pretty sure we'd all be willing to take up a collection at the festival in September to buy you a one way ticket to anywhere but here....just sayin'. I mean it's always better in some other country than our own, right?

~Brian~

 

[Justin G]

I totally agree. That drives me nuts!!! My grandfather died of smoking related complications and his medical bill for the last several months was slightly over a million dollars!! All paid for by insurance. I loved my grandpa and everything, but seriously smoking cost the taxpayers a million dollars! And he's just one dude.

* end mini rant*

Wait, if he had insurance how would it cost the taxpayers anything? Or was it Medicare?

And my condolences.

 

[Prog_Please]

Wait, if he had insurance how would it cost the taxpayers anything? Or was it Medicare?

And my condolences.

He's retired military so they pay for his insurance. Which means we all pay for it, in a sense.

And thanks.

 

[Bamafan]

I totally agree. That drives me nuts!!! My grandfather died of smoking related complications and his medical bill for the last several months was slightly over a million dollars!! All paid for by insurance. I loved my grandpa and everything, but seriously smoking cost the taxpayers a million dollars! And he's just one dude.

* end mini rant*

I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, your story is all too common. We spend a huge percentage of our health care dollar in the last months of life. As a society, we've been unwilling to have the conversation about end of life issues. No one wants to be accused of not doing everything we can for our loved ones, but in patients with end stage metastatic cancer (as an example), is it worth it to try heroic and expensive measures to preserve life an additional 4-6 weeks? Especially knowing those aren't going to be good weeks. Catch me after a couple of drinks in September and I'll probably be unguarded enough to share some horror stories about wasted health care dollars if anyone cares to hear.

 

[Prog_Please]

I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, your story is all too common. We spend a huge percentage of our health care dollar in the last months of life. As a society, we've been unwilling to have the conversation about end of life issues. No one wants to be accused of not doing everything we can for our loved ones, but in patients with end stage metastatic cancer (as an example), is it worth it to try heroic and expensive measures to preserve life an additional 4-6 weeks? Especially knowing those aren't going to be good weeks. Catch me after a couple of drinks in September and I'll probably be unguarded enough to share some horror stories about wasted health care dollars if anyone cares to hear.

I totally agree. The quality of life when hospitalized and terminally ill is pretty shitty and over the top expensive. Someones gotta step in, be the asshole, and say enough is enough. But then again I know some people who think every minute counts and you can't put a price on that. To each their own I guess. Until we go bankrupt.

 

[adaher]

I'm pretty sure we'd all be willing to take up a collection at the festival in September to buy you a one way ticket to anywhere but here....just sayin'. I mean it's always better in some other country than our own, right?

~Brian~

I'd also add that even if you think Americans are selfish, shouldn't there be a country for selfish people? Should every country have the same system? We believe since the founding of this country that the pursuit of happiness is a fundamental human right. And some people are happy making money.

 

[adaher]

I totally agree. The quality of life when hospitalized and terminally ill is pretty shitty and over the top expensive. Someones gotta step in, be the asshole, and say enough is enough. But then again I know some people who think every minute counts and you can't put a price on that. To each their own I guess. Until we go bankrupt.

My opinion is that if you have your own money, do what you want, but if you're on taxpayer insurance, once you're terminal, we just make you as comfortable as we can.

Of course, as with the death penalty, people who aren't terminal can be misdiagnosed and left to die of things they could be saved from. Liverpool, Britain, has been testing out something called a "death pathway" for terminal patients, and in an extreme case a perfectly conscious woman was denied even water because they said she was going to die. She had to call the police. And if you do a quick Google search for patients being denied food and water in NHS hospitals, you'll be appalled.