'Best' effects for the guitar amp fx loop?

[TheDarkProject]

Hi all,

I'm currently running quite a simple signal chain: guitar -> tuner -> noise reduction -> overdrive -> amp.

I have the ability to switch the 2 channels on the amp (Bugera 6262), to turn reverb on or off, and to switch the fx loop on or off. This suffices for most things, but I'm considering adding some extra versatility to my sound by putting effects in the loop. So, I'd love to hear some opinions on what to use there, based on what other people are using or would like to use. I'm interested in value for money, versatility, sound quality, ease of use, and the inevitable tradeoffs between these.

I don't have much in the way of specific requirements, so I'm just interested primarily in what the potential is and finding out what's available, especially in the way of multi-effects units rather than long combinations of stomp boxes (although that's not ruled out). I primarily play doom/gothic metal with melodeath and black metal as my secondary genres, for what it's worth.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Episteme]

this is my setup, I was using a Bugera 333XL before but I've switched to a 6505+ recently.

Guitar->Boss TU-2->modded Ibanez TS9->BBE Sonic Stomp->Front of 6505+

in my FX loop I'm running as follows:

Send->Boss CE5->Boss DD3->ISP Noise Decimator->Return

imo I'd stick a Boss GT 8 or 10 in the FX Loop, that was my initial plan for more versatility but I went for the cheaper option and because I didn't think I needed anything more in terms of effects.

 

[TheDarkProject]

Thanks for the response Episteme.

I was considering a GT-8 or GT-10 in the loop, but also maybe the TC Electronic Nova System. Since I'd mostly be going with the Bugera distortion and my overdrive pedal, the distortion and amp section of the GT isn't really needed, and the effects are widely considered to not sound as good as those in the Nova System (which are based directly on the more expensive G-System, from what I gather). On the other hand, the GT-8 and GT-10 are a bit more versatile in that I could use its drive section if needed (although I always thought it was pretty poor compared to the POD XT amp/dist/OD sims) and that it has an integrated volume and wah/expression pedal.

Difficult decision!

 

[Mack Addy]

By all means, if it says TC Electronic on it, it is going to rule. The moment I read this thread title I immediately thought, "Nova System!"

It's well under a grand, it's a multi-effects processor that works a lot like a bunch of stomp boxes (but also has presets available if/when you may need to switch to different sounds), it will have the cleanest and most transparent effects this side of $2000, AND it even has its own overdrive circuit built in. The drive circuit is independant of the effects circuit with its own In/Out that is meant to be run in front of an amplifier while the effects In/Out of course runs through your amp's loop. This is a much better setup compared to a GT-8/GT-10 since these only have one In/Out which would thus force you to use its drive settings in your effects loop...not good at all.

I will warn you about something. Once you go TC, you will most likely never come back. You will look at other inferior pedals inside display cases at music stores and bow your head in shame.

 

[Episteme]

Wow, now I feel convinced to get a Nova system. Thing is, with my regular set up I use the Sonic Stomp and TS9 at the front of the amp and a noise gate in the loop along with the other FX. Delay and Chorus are my only FX and I'm not sure if it's worth spending money on such a thing.

 

[TheDarkProject]

Thanks for the reply Mack. Looking at the Nova system manual I can't see the separate in/out for the drive circuit, just a way to bypass it if you use the Nova in the loop by using the line-in. Whereas with the GT-10 you can definitely do it that way since it has a separate send/return loop.

This is fine for me since I will use the amp's drive, but it was interesting that you said this.

I'm also a bit concerned about the Nova System's very low impedance input which might harm the tone somewhat when used in the amp loop. I've asked on their forums what to do about that. If I would need an impedance matching pedal as well on top of the extra expression/volume pedal I'd need for the Nova then I might just opt for the GT-10 instead.

 

[TheDarkProject]

In fact, having dug a bit deeper, given that the Nova System doesn't work so well in the loop due to impedance mismatch problems, the Vox Tonelab LE becomes an option. The ToneLab looks like a cut-down GT-10, and unlike the Nova is designed to go in the loop. Hmmm!

 

[Mack Addy]

There shouldn't be a problem with loss of volume or anything whatsoever. It doesn't color tone at all; it gets left intact.

The ToneLab is another preamp/multi-effects unit similar to the GT-10 in basic functionality. The tone is way better on the LE and much more organic sounding. Still though, the Nova System will slay it with effects alone.

And Episteme, get that Sonic Stomp the hell out of the front end of your amp and put it first in your FX loop. You'll thank me once you do. As for spending the cash, let me put two perspectives into play here:

1. If you're going to take music and gigging seriously, there is no room for sub-par equipment. When you get into this realm, follow the phrase "Buy it once" with your heart. This means that you get the best gear that will do the job you need it to do so you won't have to worry about upgrading later.
2. Nova System = $700-800. G System/G Force = $1500. You'll get the exact same quality effects either way from Dutch people who give a fuck about what they build. The real question is: how are you going to use this technology?

 

[TheDarkProject]

There shouldn't be a problem with loss of volume or anything whatsoever. It doesn't color tone at all; it gets left intact.

Unfortunately even people on the TC Electronics forum are saying otherwise; the Nova System - and even the G System - have a really poor impedance on the input and it does colour the tone. They tend to suggest sticking a buffer pedal in there to fix this, which is another £80/$130 for me.

1. If you're going to take music and gigging seriously, there is no room for sub-par equipment.

But what is 'par'? Bands like Opeth and Katatonia use the Boss GT range of effects live, and it doesn't seem to have harmed them much.

As it stands I am quite some way off being able to gig seriously, so in my case I don't think I can justify the expense of a G-System + expression pedal + buffer pedal for my needs. I can definitely see that other people's needs would be different though and I may well revisit this route in the future.

 

[Mack Addy]

Were these people on the TC Electronic forums users or the actual TC people that were telling you this? If the actual TC people are telling you this, work accordingly. I'll trust them about their gear more than I would!

However, if they are users that are saying this, I can't help but wonder what else they may be putting through their rigs, how they are setting their gear up, what kind of cables they are using, how long the cables are, etc etc? As far as I've experienced with these things (sold them to customers since they came out and I have a G Force in my own rig as well), I haven't encountered any signal loss issues. Then again, I do have my entire rig wired up with Monster Cables and try to encourage my customers to do the same!

A buffer pedal is never going to hurt anything. Hell, I could probably use one myself. Even with my minimalist setup (guitar into rack, rack in and out of amp and through the effects loop), I am still running about 41 feet of cables (62 if I decide to hook up a wah pedal).

'Par' equipment is for the most part in the eyes of the beholder. I suppose a better (and perhaps less hypocritical) way of putting it is "Don't buy crap equipment." Boss does make good stuff and I am pretty impressed with what the GT-8/GT-10 can do. Even then, there is still the slightest amount of coloration in tone when these are used. Will it be bad? It might not be! Hell, those guys could be using them because of the way their sound is affected. What matters in the end is what is going to work best for you. Just don't buy crap.

And for what it's worth, I have a G Force, expression pedal, other rack goodies, and several Marshall cabinets sitting at home with a midi foot controller on the way and I have absolutely no band to use all of this stuff in. I didn't gear up for the purpose of what I'm doing now: I geared up for what I will need to do in the future.

Moral of this post: Do what feels tonally right to you, not what is cheap.

 

[TheDarkProject]

Thanks for your input Mack - always good to hear from people who've got hands on experience of the gear. Anybody else got any thoughts before I choose where to splash the cash?

 

[Episteme]

And Episteme, get that Sonic Stomp the hell out of the front end of your amp and put it first in your FX loop. You'll thank me once you do.

What can I expect from doing this? I've been putting it at the front of my amp since I bought it and I can't live without it haha. Many people tell me that it works best out the front of the amp.

I gig at least once a month and take my rig out to rehearsal studios to jam with the band once a week, so I've been aiming for the best sounding gear even before we started gigging. Still very slowly building up my gear as I go on and my latest buy is the Peavey 6505+ head. Damn happy with that purchase. Won't be looking for a new amp for a long time.

P.S Take time to listen to our tracks

 

[Mack Addy]

What can I expect from doing this?

You can expect your tone to go from "this is pretty damn brutal" to "HOLY BEJESUSY FUCK THAT IS AMAZING!!!"

Set that 6505 up to the number of the beast (everything at 6 except Post Volume which should be raised up to taste), put that Sonic Stomp in the loop and set both knobs to 12 o'clock.