bob clearmountain/cla/tla/aw

aramism

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Dec 2, 2006
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i want to shout out 90s rock/alt rock/pop rock records

mid-late 90s was the period of "singles" like edwin mccain, melissa ethridge, fastball, sixpence none the richer, etc.

and the mixes and sonics of 90s rock/alt records were so awesome. i really love the space and depth of a lot of those mixes and a lot is attributed to that bunch of engineers. bob clearmountain and tla in particular had a certain sonic sound to their work. big fan here. discuss?
 
Not an huge fan of Andy Wallace mix as I am fan of Tom work.
In fact if I was asked to make a fav mixer for pop rock/modern rock list I would pick two names: Tom Lord Alge and Ben Grosse:headbang:

But back to OT, what do you want to know (can help a lot for BC)? Technical aspects or just fav mix preference?

Common point between the four you listed (and it where the mix wideness come from) is SSL 4000 E/G. That simple.
For explain a bit about it, if you pan your guitar hard left and righ ITB, perception of wideness limit come from where your speaker are.
Now you put the same tracks on a console, pan hard left and right; and your guitar seem to come from 1 feet wider than where your speaker are.
So your mix is wider, and your center is also cleaner. So you get more space for your important element like kick, snare, bass and vocals.

Will pass on CLA since everyone know is chain, way he work...etc.

I know really little about Andy W.

He mixed 90% of his career on a ssl 4000 G with G+ computer and ultimation, never operate PT by itelf. Lttle to no outboard (Drawmer gate sometimes), old LA2A on vocal back in the day. Genelec 1031A and ns10 for monitor.

Andy mix at really low level, so low you can hear a mouse walk in the room according to some peoples (JJP at Pensado place).
He heavily automate everything section by section (he is the master of transition), and instrument by instrument, note by note.
Riding is bass by hand, note by note for get constant rms level. His mix have huge and tigh low frequency control.
He use a couple of drum samples (put on a DAT) for triger is reverb.
Automation wise Andy use 3 VCA channels for his drum: vca1 > kick, vca2>snare and snare samples, vca3 for all other drum elements.

That all I know for him sorry:worship:

Now Tom Lord Alge

Tom mix at South Beach studio (Miami).
Chain is PT HD8 feeding his 3348 (24bits, Chris use the original 16bits version and feed his rig from tape) digitally via an AES to Madi format converter. The sony feed his ssl 4064G+ with ultimation.
One biggest difference between Chris and Tom: Chris assistant use PTHD7 for edit, and organise PT session, after that everything is printed to the 3348. So Chris operate mostly from tape. Tom in others hand are since this years on PTHD8 (was before with 5.6) and he operate himself PT. His assistant only edit/preparing sessions.
Lot of great hardware (use his Neve comp for repairing work) but ton of his fx are done ITB (echofarm and others). His guitars are 100% ITB and lot of his eqing are done with the D2 from focusrite. Monitor are ns10, sony boom box and Genelec 1034A for the main.
Listening at conversation level with his ns10, low level on the main.
He also do all his fader ride listening through headphone.
Slamming compression on individual channel and 2bus sometimes. Compressor for character and automation for dynamic.
2bus is generally ssl quad bus or his focusrite red3 (kissing the red in this case).

Tom is passionnate, love music. He also a great engineer, fast at help and really meticulous with what he doing.

here an interesting thread on gearslutz

And a cool video with Tom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4-q0_toK5Q

Don't know if all this are what you looking for but anyway hope that help.

PS: if someone have more info about Tom, share;)
 
Mikaël-ange;10054818 said:
For explain a bit about it, if you pan your guitar hard left and righ ITB, perception of wideness limit come from where your speaker are.
Now you put the same tracks on a console, pan hard left and right; and your guitar seem to come from 1 feet wider than where your speaker are.
So your mix is wider, and your center is also cleaner. So you get more space for your important element like kick, snare, bass and vocals.

I mix everyday on an aws 900 and I never noticed this. Unless it's more specfic to 4K consoles... but you make it sound like it's something that you can tell STRAIGHT away and not very subtle, while from my experience it is VERY VERY subtle, I never heard anything 1 feet away from the speaker when hard panning. Unless, like I said, it's more pronounced on the 4Ks etc
 
I never mixed on an AWS, so I can speak for it (as all new super analog line). But when I sterned out tracks form an ITB mix I've done (100% ITB, no hardware insert...etc) trough an old E serie; this was first thing I noticed.
Can't really explain why this happen, but it happen:lol:
 
Mikaël-ange;10055275 said:
I never mixed on an AWS, so I can speak for it (as all new super analog line). But when I sterned out tracks form an ITB mix I've done (100% ITB, no hardware insert...etc) trough an old E serie; this was first thing I noticed.
Can't really explain why this happen, but it happen:lol:

Hehe, I wasnt doubting or anything, I believe those consoles may have that effect more pronounced. It could also be placebo of the excitement of being in front of a 4K :p
 
Some legacy ssl are heavily moded btw (CLA G, Polygone studio ssl (the one in my area)...etc)

A couple of notes on the SSL 4000 series:
1) The very last few 4000 E series console made and the very first 4000 G consoles made were the
same except for a different paint job
2) The dynamic and EQ cards have gone through different revisions with the demands of the BBC
over the years, so similar to Neve consoles you can have 2 different sounding consoles even though
they both may be E's or G's.
3) You can make an older E more like a G by upgrading the line amps, VCA's and computer(which are
all recommended). If the E is pre 83' than the auxes are probably unbalanced so that is something to
consider modifying as well. The solo functions are different and i don't know anyone who modded this
but it doesn't mean its not possible.
4) 4000G and G+ are the same console except for the computer, oxygen free wiring(does anyone
really care), D&K phase meter(which can be added to a G as well). The very last G+(raven series)
had the Bob Clearmountain/Bluestone/surround aux mod and a modified center section(less or no
caps).

A little James Lugo video at Ryan Williams video explaining basic ssl mixing, itb vs console difference...etc.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-LIkVUzk8&feature=channel_video_title"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-LIkVUzk8&feature=channel_video_title[/ame]
 
Mikaël-ange;10055275 said:
I never mixed on an AWS, so I can speak for it (as all new super analog line). But when I sterned out tracks form an ITB mix I've done (100% ITB, no hardware insert...etc) trough an old E serie; this was first thing I noticed.
Can't really explain why this happen, but it happen:lol:

I had a similar experience when i mixed a bands EP which they later mixed on a a trident desk. I asked the mixer that mixed the analogue version if he used any stereo wideners on the mix but he said no. The Synth that was panned L/R was sooo much wider on the analogue mix
 
@aramism: yep same room
SSL mix printed back to PT via 192. Both mix (ITB and SSL) played back through 192 converter. Not a fair test since console mix have several 192 round trip:lol:

@Ermin: actually my fav are
30second to mars-A beautiful Lie
Avril Lavigne-Best damn thing
Boys like girls-Boys like girls

His mix for aaronhendra (http://www.aaronhendra.com/ )sound promising to my hear, probably a futur reference for me.

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Tom+Lord-Alge

http://www.artistdirect.com/artist/credits/tom-lord-alge/396447

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/p51110
 
Anyway I remember I read that different SSL model of the same Series can differ a lot (E, G, etc...)

Yeah every SSL is INCREDIBLY different. Terrible analogy but, It's just like buying fruit really...they all look the same but you gotta touch em a bit to see which is going to taste the best.

I've worked on SSL's that were ultra modded 4000G+ with all the bell's and whistles that sounded shitty, and I've worked on god awfully maintained ones that sound awesome. It's really a total crap shoot, hence why I'd never ever buy one.

Back on topic,

All those guys are incredible, especially Andy Wallace for me. His minimalistic approach still makes some of the most exciting mixes I find. CLA/TLA I love too and they do incredible work, but I also find it really heavy handed and they leave a signature stamp on everything they do....not a bad thing per say..
 
Thanks for that rundown Mikael.

I'm ashamed to admit, but I'm not familiar with Tom Lord-Alge's work at all. Hit me with his best stuff! I'd love to load up my reference pile.

boo man boo get familiar! lol

dave matthews band singles, and a bunch of mega singles in late 90s alt rock are just a starting point. he's kind of like a middle ground between cla in your face splatty sound and andy wallace depth and vibe.
 
big bump to bob clearmountain. he's legit awesome. another ssl g series guy but he ruled the 90s rock and pop charts along with tla and aw. cla really became more popular i feel like in the 00's.

bob clearmountain was the first mixer superstar also in my opinion. hell he was the main reason why ns10s became so popular.
 
Bob C was the main reason behind CLA and TLA career choice as mixer!
He was the first real mixer.
He also was the first to use the famous SSL trick for deesing (Manny Marroquin use this a lot).

Thanks for the SOS link Christian;)
I'm more aware about others interview:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/articles/it_0209.htm

http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_bob_clearmountain/

http://emusician.com/em_spotlight/bob_clearmountain_interview/

Side notes: Bob wife owned Apogee since a while, so is easy to figure why Bob only use Apogee converter:lol:
 
I love RATM RATM, but as the years go by AW's mixes have impressed me less and less.
In fact; I know of a band who recently rejected his mix of their album....

Love CLA, but find that a whole album (jimmy eat world chase this light) can sound 2 dimensional over the course of the album compared to other records (futures - rich costey... best album ever)
Some of my friends had a record mixed by Ben Grosse and it sound HUUUUUGE. He's way underrated.