Bush immunity for war crimes?

[speed]

HAHA…it was you my friend that doesn’t condemn Israel’s attacks on the United States and you also took their side when they destroyed Lebanon, you have some issues. Furthermore, I try to point out that the United States secretary of Homeland Security blocked the indictment of a suspected terrorist who was involved in Operation Diamondback who sought to arm Bin Laden with nuclear weapons (which doesn’t seem to bother you) and he also allowed over 100 Israeli spies flee back to Israel without fear of prosecution or even being reached by American investigators in the wake of 9/11. There is no way you can wiggle your way out of this one.

Yes, Israel did pull out yesterday; heads have rolled; the entire Israeli population (more than 80% of polls) think not only was the little war disastrously dumb, but incompetantly run, illegal, pointless, and hurtfull to the Israeli state.

And I remember arguing all of this to everyone and anyone who wished to debate me. I should really start saying I told you so. But with much of society part of this faux flag-waving fox-news "patriotism" one cannot get it through their thick skulls, to actually examine and analyze what ther American and Israeli governments are actually doing.

 

[Patrick R.]

Yes, Israel did pull out yesterday; heads have rolled; the entire Israeli population (more than 80% of polls) think not only was the little war disastrously dumb, but incompetantly run, illegal, pointless, and hurtfull to the Israeli state.

And I remember arguing all of this to everyone and anyone who wished to debate me. I should really start saying I told you so. But with much of society part of this faux flag-waving fox-news "patriotism" one cannot get it through their thick skulls, to actually examine and analyze what ther American and Israeli governments are actually doing.

I couldn't agree more, the pro Israel individuals in power are upset about the recent Lebanon Israel war not because it killed scores of innocent Lebanese, but rather the fact that Israel destroyed it’s image around the world even more then it already is and they couldn’t even disarm Hezbollah, I guess the IDF specializes in attacking Palestinian women and children.

 

[OldScratch]

Imagine what would have happened to Truman had Japan, somehow, won the war in spite of the A-bombings.

Indeed. Add to this the possibility, however slim, that Germany had been victorious. By the time the war ended, it is estimated that upward of one million German civilians had been murdered by allied bombs, etc. The British commonly used phosphorous bombs(which Hitler ironically forbade), resulting in untold civilian horrors. Though Dresden is finally receiving some latter-day attention has a flagrant act of mass-murder, this was but one of the more egregious incidents of its kind.
US Justice Robert H. Jackson, Chief Prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials, was forced to repeatedly re-work and re-invent(during development) the charges to be lodged against the Nazi's, as many of the accusations against them were in fact also committed by the Allies themsleves. The Soviet Union's war conduct proved particularly troublesome. A curious way to carry out "justice" if you ask me.
Now, obviously Germany's deeds are legendary(though perhaps historically distorted in some areas) and it is not my intent to whitewash their wartime activities. It is however, notable that "justice" is often purely subjective in matters of war. Whereas the US and our modern allies are the great "liberators" "spreaders of liberal Democracy" and all that...thus, justice, now as it was 1945-46 is what WE say it is. Bush will be tried for nothing formally, that is my prediction.

 

[Alter]

well those people have there own culture that we are invading on them for no real purpose

 

[Keltoi]

What "war crimes" has "Bush" committed?, other than putting U.S. national security before opinion polls? The Iraq War was not "illegal" in any way, since Saddam had been in defiance of the cease-fire agreement for quite some time. If you are seriously looking to charge Bush with something, you would have better luck in a court of law by charging him with drunk driving in 1985. This left-wing neo-socialist outlook on politics and society may seem intellectually stimulating to some people, but carries about as much weight as a chipmunk fart in a hurricane.

 

[Patrick R.]

What "war crimes" has "Bush" committed?, other than putting U.S. national security before opinion polls? The Iraq War was not "illegal" in any way, since Saddam had been in defiance of the cease-fire agreement for quite some time. If you are seriously looking to charge Bush with something, you would have better luck in a court of law by charging him with drunk driving in 1985. This left-wing neo-socialist outlook on politics and society may seem intellectually stimulating to some people, but carries about as much weight as a chipmunk fart in a hurricane.

Well Richard Perle, one of the chief architects of the war in Iraq disagrees with you. Lets face it, the Bush administration along with the Senate and House of Representatives (which is dominated by Republicans) haven’t been very conservative, I mean these endless wars in the middle east along with the open borders doesn’t seem to fit the mainstream projection of the Republican party. Hell, the Senate wanted to give amnesty to illegal aliens! The funny thing about that is is that Americans think the Republican party is better then the democratic party with national security! Cleary if ‘national security’ was their interest wouldn’t that start with securing our own border??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html

 

[fah-q]

Well Richard Perle, one of the chief architects of the war in Iraq disagrees with you. Lets face it, the Bush administration along with the Senate and House of Representatives (which is dominated by Republicans) haven’t been very conservative, I mean these endless wars in the middle east along with the open borders doesn’t seem to fit the mainstream projection of the Republican party. Hell, the Senate wanted to give amnesty to illegal aliens! The funny thing about that is is that Americans think the Republican party is better then the democratic party with national security! Cleary if ‘national security’ was their interest wouldn’t that start with securing our own border??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html

I can't believe I am actually writing this but (Hands shaking). I agree with Patrick, somewhat. I am not opposed to the war in Iraq, just how it is being run. I would rather secure our borders rather than liberate a region halfway around the world. Nuke the triangle, bring our troops home.

 

[OldScratch]

I can't believe I am actually writing this but (Hands shaking). I agree with Patrick, somewhat. I am not opposed to the war in Iraq, just how it is being run. I would rather secure our borders rather than liberate a region halfway around the world. Nuke the triangle, bring our troops home.

I don't know who you wish to Nuke exactly, but I am all for bringing the Troops home...and placing them right on our Southern border!

 

[SoundMaster]

I don't know who you wish to Nuke exactly...

Anything but the oil wells/refineries, please.

 

[Patrick R.]

I can't believe I am actually writing this but (Hands shaking). I agree with Patrick, somewhat. I am not opposed to the war in Iraq, just how it is being run. I would rather secure our borders rather than liberate a region halfway around the world. Nuke the triangle, bring our troops home.

Right, I guess when I came off as anti war you thought I was a liberal.

But the thing is the left wingers don't have any domestic plans neither...they will not secure our borders. That is where our soldiers belong…literally.

 

[SoundMaster]

Right, I guess when I came off as anti war you thought I was a liberal.

But the thing is the left wingers don't have any domestic plans neither...they will not secure our borders. That is where our soldiers belong…literally.

Of course they won't. The "new Democrats", much like the GOP, would never allow for a total cessation of illegal immigrants as their economic interests, ultimately, dine at the table of corporate America. It's simply not good for the economy.

 

[Norsemaiden]

These are some of the "war crimes" Bush is guilty of. I am not very sympathetic to the ideas concerning wrongdoing as regards AIDS and New Orleans.

http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/09/bush_war_crimes.html

September 20, 2006
Bush War Crimes Commission: The final verdict
The final verdict of the INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY ON CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF THE UNITED STATES has now been published and can be downloaded from here

An extract from the introduction is posted below:

The extraordinary Commission of Inquiry convened to consider charges that the President George W. Bush and his administration have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity has now reached a verdict: Guilty.
On wars of aggression, illegal detention and torture, suppression of science and catastrophic policies on global warming, potentially genocidal abstinence-only policies imposed on HIV/AIDS prevention programs in the Third World, and the abandonment of New Orleans before, during, and after Hurricane Katrina, President George W. Bush and his administration have been found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

This verdict comes at crucial moment. As Michael Ratner, President of the Center for Constitutional Rights, emphasized at the Commission hearings: “We want this trial to be a step in the building of mass resistance to war, to torture, to the destruction of earth and its people. It’s a serious moment. . . . We still have a chance, an opportunity to stop this slide into chaos. But it is up to us. We must not sit with our arms folded, and we must be as radical as the reality we are facing.”

Acts of the Bush Administration have continued to reinforce this assessment. The crimes cited in the indictments have continued. We have witnessed a continuing onslaught of horrors in Iraq from the massacres in Haditha and Mahmudiya to the exposure of rapes and murders by U.S. forces. Torture continues at secret overseas sites. New Orleans still lies in ruins, much of its Black population “resettled.” New evidence concerning the deadly impact of U.S. AIDS policy in Africa has come to light. New crimes have been committed such as the destruction of Lebanon with U.S. weapons and backing. And now even more serious crimes loom with open threats to launch a new war of aggression on Iran. This administration has flouted and defied the Geneva Conventions. It has arrogated to itself the right to suspend habeas corpus, engage in mass warrantless searches, and defines the powers of the “commander-in-chief” to be above the law. Bush’s Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales, has sought to legitimize torture and exempt those who employ torture from prosecution.

 

[OldScratch]

Lumping the likes of the 'misfortunes' of New Orleans' teaming Black underclass post Katrina, wailing about global-warming or assigning some tacit responsibility for Africa's AIDS woes (via some Orwellian drivel about "genocidal" abstinence advocacy policies!) onto America betrays much of this as typical partisan, leftist propaganda - which coming from Michael Rattner would be quite predictable.
Sadly, this just muddies the waters of what might otherwise have been a sober and objective(ie. credible) inquiry into the truly questionable, if not criminal war-mongering and such of the Bush Administration. Another opportunity lost to emotion over substance.

 

[A Dying Breed]

Um what the hell is the significance of the INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY ON CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF THE UNITED STATES aside from the the fact that it's all in caps?

The Commission is sponsored by the Not In Our Name statement of conscience

Oh, it's a political stunt by an anti-war protest group. This "verdict" carries about as much weight as my jock strap.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Lumping the likes of the 'misfortunes' of New Orleans' teaming Black underclass post Katrina, wailing about global-warming or assigning some tacit responsibility for Africa's AIDS woes (via some Orwellian drivel about "genocidal" abstinence advocacy policies!) onto America betrays much of this as typical partisan, leftist propaganda - which coming from Michael Rattner would be quite predictable.
Sadly, this just muddies the waters of what might otherwise have been a sober and objective(ie. credible) inquiry into the truly questionable, if not criminal war-mongering and such of the Bush Administration. Another opportunity lost to emotion over substance.

Agreed. There is no way that a failure to act should be considered as a war crime anyway surely? It really just helps Bush's case that they lump a load of such liberal nonsense along with some far more serious issues.

 

[Horus]

Agreed. There is no way that a failure to act should be considered as a war crime anyway surely? It really just helps Bush's case that they lump a load of such liberal nonsense along with some far more serious issues.

People are only categorizing Bush's failure to act for Katrina along with his War Crimes, because the people who are doing this are mostly, if not all, Left Wing liberals looking to prove that Bush is a shitty President. I don't particularly like G.W.Bush.... at all..... but I do understand that his actions during the Hurricane Katrina ordeal were probably the best he could do while balancing that, the Iraq situation, and whatever other internal affairs he was forced to deal with.

This morning, in my Part in Government class, I was reading the New York Times, and I was reading an article about an interview with Bush about the whole North Korea Nuclear Weapons Program situation. In the interview, he was talking about how the Clinton administration made an agreement woth N.Korea to completely stop their Nuclear Program, which they soon secretly defied. And he proceeded to go on about how he's been trying diplomacy to handle this situation. If he's been working for diplomacy with North Korea, wouldn't this sound like something that would make the news? I've heard absolutely nothing about North Korea (until recently) in the news, except "North Korea still hates the United States." I've heard no stories about American Diplomats going over and discussing the matter at all. I don't know if I can believe that they've tried immunity. I want to really badly, but I just feel like I can't.

I have a feeling that something bad is gonna happen, and the world is not gonna be very happy.

 

[Norsemaiden]

There are a lot of lies ("black propaganda") about N Korea. Really they just want to be left alone - although if they can use some threats to squeeze some money out of the west all the better from their point of view. The US just won't allow any country to be out of the New World Order.

North Korea is not full of starving people as it is portrayed. They are quite contented on the whole. The people of South Korea are not hostile to N Korea, only the government is.

I don't think the US can move against N Korea. These so called sanctions aren't going to achieve anything. N Korea could bomb (nuke) the financial centers in Japan which would cause a global economic crash - as well as a lot of human suffering.

The timing of these tests is relevant to the threats made against Iran by the US/Israel. The N Koreans hope that it will make them back off. If anything does kick off such as a nuclear attack on Iran, then you can bet that China will invade Taiwan immediately. China is friends with N Korea. The only reason China told them not to do that test last week (or earlier this week) was to distance China from N Korea's actions for tactical political reasons.