Bush represents a swing of American allegiance away from Athena, to Ares

xfer

I JERK OFF TO ARCTOPUS
Nov 8, 2001
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"She was the goddess of metis, which means cunning and craftiness. . . . The word that we use today to mean the same thing, is really technology. . . . Instead of calling Athena the goddess of war, wisdom and macrame, then, we should say war and technology. And here again we have the problem of an overlap with the jurisdiction of Ares, who's supposed to be the god of war. And let's just say that Ares is a complete asshole. His personal aides are Fear and Terror and sometimes Strife. He is constantly at odds with Athena even though -- maybe because -- they are nominally the god and goddess of the same thing -- war. Heracles, who is one of Athena's human proteges, physically wounds Ares on two occasions, and even strips him of his weapons at one point! You see, the fascinating thing about Ares is that he's completely incompetent. . . .

"So insofar as Athena is a goddess of war, what really do we mean by that? Note that her most famous weapon is not her sword but her shield Aegis, and Aegis has a gorgon's head on it, so that anyone who attacks her is in serious danger of being turned to stone. She's always described as being calm and majestic, neither of which adjectives anyone ever applied to Ares. . . ."

"Let's face it, Randy, we've all known guys like Ares. The pattern of human behavior that caused the internal mental representation of Ares to appear in the minds of the ancient Greeks is very much alive today, in the form of terrorists, serial killers, riots, pogroms, and aggressive tinhorn dictators who turn out to be military incompetents. And yet for all their stupidity and incompetence, people like that can conquer and control large chunks of the world if they are not resisted. . . . Who is going to fight them off, Randy?

"I'm afraid you're going to say we are."

"Sometimes it might be other Ares-worshippers, as when Iran and Iraq went to war and no one cared who won. But if Ares-worshippers aren't going to end up running the whole world, somebody needs to do violence to them. This isn't very nice, but it's a fact: civilization requires an Aegis. And the only way to fight the bastards off in the end is through intelligence. Cunning. Metis. . . . Do you kow why we won the Second World War, Randy?"

"Because we built better stuff than the Germans?"

"But why did we build better stuff, Randy? . . . Well, the short answer is that we won because the Germans worshipped Ares and we worshipped Athena."

 
Ok, other than the whole atomic bomb thing, what technology did we have that was better than the Germans, they had the Tiger and we had the Sherman, we had planes and they eventually had jets, they had the V2 rocket, their equipment was mostly superior.
 
no, it's not just about "more advanced weaponry". otherwise the richest nation would be automatically Athena at all times. and i think Iraq was more technologically advanced in the Iraq-Iran war, yet that didn't make them Athenian.

here's more:

Here's the end of the dialogue, after Root argues that the Nazis failed because their ideology was all about proving things that they already believed true, not about finding truth:


"Ares always reemerges from the chaos. It will never go away. Athenian civilization defends itself from the forces of Ares with metis, or technology. . . ."

"Sounds teleological, Enoch. Free countries get better science, hence superior military power, hence get to defend their freedoms. You're proclaiming a sort of Manifest Destiny here."

"Well, someone's got to do it."

"Aren't we beyond that sort of thing now?"

"I know you're just saying that to infuriate me. Sometimes, Randy, Ares gets chained up in a barrel for a few years, but he never goes away. The next time he emerges, Randy, the conflict is going to revolve around bio-, micro-, and nanotechnology. Who's going to win?"
 
Still, I think gekko has a good point that the last couple sentences are essentially not correct. We had a few superior ideas realized through technology, like precision daylight bombing, but mostly we could just build more.
 
I think the point is in the line "but why did we build better stuff?" (ie, why did we have better technology)

because we didn't see technology as a means to effect a bellicose goal, but rather belligerency as a way to make the world safe for technology (which, in this writeup, is bound up with social issues like freedom of expression, human rights, transparency, democracy, etc)
 
aaaand to apply that to the modern situation, in order to trick a nation that's accostomed to being Athena into being Ares, Bush had to make up an Athenian goal (spreading freedom/democracy AND defenciveness) in order to actually achieve an Aresian goal (using our smart bombs in order to crush another country).
 
This reminds me - I think it's really annoying when fiction authors come up with a character who's clearly supposed to be wise and brilliant, and then in the book that character engages in all this "dialogue" which is really just the author spouting his or her own philosophy and crackpot ideas through the mouth of this character who has already been established (by the author) as "wise" and "brilliant". :(