Can we talk about attack and release times?

[pikachu69]

The correct settings on a compressor are aways a hot debate and I understand fully that there is no one magic setting and I am not hunting for presets.

What I want you to share is your reasonings for your 'go to' starting point with a specific instrument/s in mind when dialling in a compressor.

For example let say on a snare drum. Do you use a slower attack time 50 - 100 ms or a quick attack time like 10ms or less. Does it depend on the tempo of the song? Explain why and what else you take into consideration if possible.
Discuss any instrument you like but please include drums, guitar, bass, keys and vocal to keep it on topic in this forum.

So yeah I want to go beyond discussing numbers and dial positions. Lets hear your thoughts, what do you expect to hear when you dial in your 'go to'?

Cheers.

 

[Manicompression]

The only go to move for me compression wise is on snare and sometimes kick.

I usually dial in an extreme ratio to really hear the envelope of the compression, learned that from reading an old Sneap post. I gravitate to a slowish attack, just enough to let the initial transient through and a faster release. This way the compression is accentuating that pop but staying out of the way unless its dealing with rolls, in which case its acting as sort of a volume ducking mechanism. Once i have it dialed in i turn the ratio down to 3 or 4.

I dig VCA style comps for this.

 

[crillemannen]

Well if you want to get some snap but keep the transient then go for like .3s attack and about .3 release. Then you will allow the transient to kick through but the compressor will add some snap and the fast release will allow the compression to not be hearable as long as you only compress like 2-4db's.

For overhead i like to kill the snare transient and then a really fast attack will be good and medium release. You don't want to kill the cymbals or make them pump but just enough to remove some of the snare.

You can only speak about compression in very wide general terms but as long as you have understood and grasped the concept of what attack and release do to the material it won't be hard to know how you like to treat it. It took me some time for sure but nowdays i have no problem at thinking creatively with the material at hand.

 

[pikachu69]

Cheers for the comments so far guys!

I don't think we have quite found the flow of the conversation I am trying to have though...
I am not asking for tuition on the subject, rather to create a brainstorm of ideas noobs and seasoned engineers alike can learn from.

Here is a few examples of the sort of things I would like to see discussed and why:

Where do you use soft knee vs hard knee?
What do you consider a fast attack and release? Resulting sound?
What do you consider a slow attack and release? Resulting sound?
VCA for drums?
Opto for bass?
General GR you aim for?

I hope this makes sense.

Cheers.

 

[Loki Laufeyiarson]

Good idea, but why not start yourself?

To me fast attack is basically killing the transient, wich would prolly be under 20ms. You can hear the snap/pop coming alive when you start moving the dial towards slower times. Fast attack would be used by me for instrance when doing parallel compression and I feel the original signal has enough attack. If there is not enough attack in the original signal, the attack times of around 20ms or a little more is where I start.

General GR is around 2 to 3 dB on average unless I use parallel compression, then it is basically just smashed to bits most of the time.

When going for compression I gravitate towards VCA and FET type most of the time. Only vox get the opto treatment (with VCA or FET aftwards though).

Soft knee is more for mastering or busses where I don't want the compression to be too obvious. Hard knee for anything else most of the time.

 

[DavePiatek]

Drum Compressor setting tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBG4xvlq6gM

 

[szymon]

I have noticed, in general, that slower attack times (so anything more than 15ms to me) makes things more "in your face" than fast attack. Fast attack gives more density, but makes the whole thing more washy. Try putting a 5-10ms attack compressor on drum bus, and then some slower attack and release (matching the song tempo ideally) - first one is going to give you more ambience and sustain, whereas latter will be more "tight" sounding. Then there comes the topic of combining two different compressors... but not this time I guess. Also, I'm still experimenting with that, and I don't feel like I always know what and why am I doing
To be more specific, on individual drums my go-to setting is a 20ms attack, 100ms release and 4:1 ratio, aiming for ~3-4db of gain reduction, hard knee. I go from there and see what works best.

Vocals are a whole different story... they tend to "like" faster attack times (5ms or so), but the point here is to even the sound, and some strange peaks.

Bass... depends on a style. On super fast/busy metal I like it to not move at all (speaking of meters), so limiting, and fast-attack compressors are welcome... BUT. my first compression in chain always (i actually checked that right now) has attack no slower than 20 ms. To me, it sounds better. Scientific background to this, is a fact that a lower fundamental notes, say 40 Hz, has a wavelength of ~9m (~28ft), so one cycle for that frequency is (according to soundspeed in air) approximatley 25 ms. To let that wave fully come through, a compressor need to react slower than that cycle.
I may be wrong here though(and please correct me if I am).
technical stuff aside, I've felt that setting the first compressor act more slowly, followed by compressor with a fast attack, results in a much more "open" sound while still being even and solid in-place.
In more "feely" stuff, and slower tracks, I usually use only one compressor with a fairly slow attack and versatile, 150ms-like release (sometimes a brickwall limiter to tame the peaks)

Compression itself is a very curious subject. After all this years of my audio engineering hobby-ing, I can think of myself like I finally started to fully understand compression, attack, release, and it's impact on the sound, hence I can choose type of compression and attack/release times, to achieve what I exactly had in mind.

Cheers,
Szymon

 

[pikachu69]

The thing I am finding interesting at the moment is trying to find a use for longer attack and release settings in mixing, not mastering.

I agree that the transient of a drum for example seems to be long gone after about 20ms so setting an attack time of longer on drums seems pointless. Like wise the sustain portion of most drum shells won't last for much more than another 20 - 30ms at best (tempo dependant) so setting a 100ms release time seems altogether too slow to me at the moment. Can any one explain this better for me?

I am really liking soft knee more and more at the moment especially on vocal, bass and clean guitar. This is worth experimenting with more as it is a more 'controlled' sound to my ear and reminds me of older hardware auto levelling comps/limiters.

I like to use short attack times (5ms and less) to create a transient in less transient rich material like some vocal or a lifeless acoustic guitar etc.
A second compressor with a longer attack time will also be used to smooth out the sustain.

Less is more!

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

I've just never understood how people can say "fast attack" or "moderately fast release" when plugins are calibrated to completely different ranges.

 

[Mago]

^because you can hear (and see with the GR) what it does.

Still pretty general and not scientific to say "fast" or "medium fast", but we all know its depending on the source anyway, so its just a pointer.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I like compressors with no attack/release controls

 

[rapucore]

I like compressors with no attack/release controls

Me too. JST Gain Reduction and the compressor in Klanghelm's SDRR rule.