Chinese toddler ran over by 2 cars, and nobody helps!

sopulurn said:
how is that the same thing at all?

if you were talking about kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, then it might be close.

This made me laugh for some reason.

Dude, what a comparison, of course they are two completely different situations and a complete change of subject, sure you can start a thread on that if you want and I will gladly not jump in, simply cause I don't care and don't judge. I will never perform abortion (on my wife of course, on my behalf, I just aborted millions like 5 minutes ago and do so quite often) but I worry not about if others decide to do it.
 
Well how about we leave it there then? I read over your post about 5 times, and none of those 5 times was I able to understand why you brought up the issue in relation to the video and this thread.
Seems like a topic for another thread entirely (using this kinda thing as the original post)

Agreed

I have nothing but total respect for you Aaron but I don't really see the similarity at all

If you agree with abortion or not, the fact remains that its a choice and no one has the right to take that choice away.

However, there is one thought that crossed my mind about this video and story that in some way does relate to what you brought up...

Is it possible the high level of apathy was due to the fact the child was a female? You all know the statistics and cultural views of the Chinese and how they look at female children. On top of that the amount of unnecessary abortions that are performed in China every year only because the parent learn they will have a girl instead of a boy

Just a thought
 
Carlos: latest stats indicate that's slowly being eliminated (the prejudice towards females in China I mean, and in the world), lately people are requesting girls for adoption and in fertility clinics. It's part of the fall of men and the rise of women, it's a very interesting subject, look it up if you're interested
 
Agreed

I have nothing but total respect for you Aaron but I don't really see the similarity at all

If you agree with abortion or not, the fact remains that its a choice and no one has the right to take that choice away.

However, there is one thought that crossed my mind about this video and story that in some way does relate to what you brought up...

Is it possible the high level of apathy was due to the fact the child was a female? You all know the statistics and cultural views of the Chinese and how they look at female children. On top of that the amount of unnecessary abortions that are performed in China every year only because the parent learn they will have a girl instead of a boy

Just a thought

It's an interesting thought. Perhaps you're right. I just saw some pictures and its really disturbing.
 
Carlos: latest stats indicate that's slowly being eliminated (the prejudice towards females in China I mean, and in the world), lately people are requesting girls for adoption and in fertility clinics. It's part of the fall of men and the rise of women, it's a very interesting subject, look it up if you're interested

it may slowly be getting eliminated but its still quite prevalent based off just a handful of recent things I've read ... various articles, news features, etc ...

I'm not up to date and informed on the subject enough to really say more than that without talking out of my ass though ... like I said, its just a thought that occurred to me
 
I would feel the same if it where a kiteh.

I don't feel a damn thing for a simple cluster of cells. If that where the case I'd go nuts worrying about all the germs I kill on a daily bases. There just isn't a magical line IMO. I feel it or I don't.
 
Agreed

I have nothing but total respect for you Aaron but I don't really see the similarity at all

If you agree with abortion or not, the fact remains that its a choice and no one has the right to take that choice away.

However, there is one thought that crossed my mind about this video and story that in some way does relate to what you brought up...

Is it possible the high level of apathy was due to the fact the child was a female? You all know the statistics and cultural views of the Chinese and how they look at female children. On top of that the amount of unnecessary abortions that are performed in China every year only because the parent learn they will have a girl instead of a boy

Just a thought

Same thing crossed my mind when I first watched the video.
 
I'm really not trying to start a conflict here, but I'm just genuinely curious... Some—likely a majority—of you who are disgusted and appalled by this are also probably strong proponents of abortion, and stand for the cause, believing that there is absolutely nothing disgusting and appalling about terminating a healthy, growing embryo or fetus. So what's the difference between this innocent 2 year old girl that we as the public can see in need and suffering, and the termination of a defenseless embryo or fetus that the we are not able to see? Undoubtedly I'm just going to get the answer that "The embryo/fetus is not a viable life form, but the 2 year old girl is"—and of course that nit-picky differentiation is an immensely feeble argument in my opinion, because the only reason that you are even alive to advocate for abortion is because your own mother chose to do the opposite—but regardless, what I'm trying to get here is not so much an "airtight" defense of abortion, but rather an explanation of how that we as humans have an intensely negative emotional/moral response to seeing other fellow humans ignore a helpless girl in the street, while contrarily, maintain the opinion that there is absolutely nothing morally reprehensible occurring when a human life-in-development is deliberately terminated.

If the situation with the girl in the street evokes such a strong emotional, generally universal response, it clearly suggests that we ascribe some value to the girl's life, does it not? We know nothing about the girl's family (other than they weren't paying enough attention to keep her safely out of the street), about whether or not she was properly fed or if she was regularly abused at home, but we still feel sorrow at the loss of her life, and anger that no one stopped to help her. But for those in favor of abortion, even if you personally knew a pregnant woman to be a nice person, to have money to support a child, has a family, and perhaps even has a stable relationship with the father...despite knowing these things, if the woman decided to have an abortion out of pure convenience, many of would be in favor of the abortion simply on the principle of the woman's "right to choose", and there would be no sorrow, no anger that the embryo would not be given the chance at life outside the womb.

Can someone try to explain this to me? How can one attribute no value to an embryo/fetus, yet have such drastically different feelings (and thus ascribe value to) the life of the girl in the street? To me there is no difference. Everything that occurs from the point of conception is essential in order for all human life to exist, so it is completely irrelevant if in part of that time, the embryo is dependent on the host and isn't yet viable.

Also, let me say that I am not trying to turn this into a religious discussion, or sneakily hoping that I can corner the secular position and make my own Christian worldview appear superior. In fact, I would rather not get into that discussion at all, because it will be fruitless and I don't have time for it, and furthermore, I don't think that the religious angle is even necessary in order to have this discussion. One doesn't have to employ any kind of religious dogma in order to oppose abortion, although of course in my experience, life in general makes a whole lot more sense when spiritual matters are treated as a serious topic to investigate.

Anyway, I'm genuinely just trying to understand how someone can rationalize this contradiction, because to me it makes no sense at all.

I see your point, and totally agree with you.

I know everyone has their own personal opinion and that's fine. Think and look at it how you want, but there is no possible way someone can actually compare a "simple cluster of cells" to an actual living being.
 
Anyway guys.............

For those wanting to understand why people just kept walking by and not helping, here's a little something called the "Nanjing Case" :

"Nanjing Peng Yu refers to a 2006 case in Nanjing. On the morning of November 20th, 65-year-old woman Xu Shoulan had fallen and injured herself at a bus stop. A man, Peng Yu, helped her up and then, after her requests, took her to the hospital. The old woman then blamed him and claimed that he had run into her. Peng Yu resolutely denied this. The old woman sued him. After four trials, a Nanjing judge ruled that since he admitted to being the first person to get off the bus, and in accordance with common sense, there was a greater probability that he had run into the old woman, and so he was ordered to compensate her over 45,000 RMB. This was a very famous case, often to explain why many people are reluctant to help others. "

Doesn't justify what those heartless, soul-less muthafuckers that just kept walking past did at all, but it at least may explain their behavior.

Drivers in China will literally reverse back over that person they accidentally (or not) hit, or as we witnessed here, rather than get out and help after accidentally running someone over with the front wheel/s, they'll just keep going and get you with the rear wheel/s too.
This is because they want to avoid paying compensation for someone they've crippled/made disabled.
It typically costs more to cover the medical bills of a disabled person than it is to outright kill them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a souless, sub-human and selfish individual and you can see why they would rather just 'finish them off', rather than stop the car, get out, see if they're okay and call for help.
 
There is too much China bashing and stereotyping going on around this topic. Not necessarily here, but elsewhere on the internet.

Fact is - something this fucked up and repugnant could easily happen in downtown LA, the middle of London, or out in the Russian countryside. People are fucked, period.
 
Aaron, I really feel you tried your best to, like you said yourself, not to influence your analysis with your christian point of view, but you just did, sorry.

There is no contradiction to me if the unviable-cluster-of-cells, incapable of feelings or even physical pain isn't considered the same as a viable human being with physical needs.
 
R.I.P


On the other topic:

I know what happen:

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There is no contradiction to me if the unviable-cluster-of-cells, incapable of feelings or even physical pain isn't considered the same as a viable human being with physical needs.

This is by far the most relevant response to my post yet. As I said, I wasn't trying to turn this into an abortion debate, but rather I was seeking to get answers to the question of, "On what basis do we attribute value to the lives of fellow human beings? ". So here in your post, it seems to me that you are basically saying that because a human is viable, is capable of feelings, and is capable of experiencing physical pain, those are reasons why human life is valuable (although I can't assume that this is your complete list). Is that a fair conclusion for me to draw? Are there any other attributes you would add to the list?

Does anyone else have anything else to add to the list? If you consider human life valuable in some way, how is it valuable, and for what reasons do you value it?
 
What I take from situations like these is that there are people that exist on this rock that don't have any potential for remorseful feelings or a conscience for morality whatsoever. If I were you, Aaron, the best thing I could hope for is that this type of mentality has dire consequences in the afterlife, in whatever form that takes. We can only react to events, and at best try to prevent bad ones from happening more than once. RIP to the little girl, wish she had better parents who didn't let her wander into a street. I see little kids running all over the place around my area with little to no supervision and it pisses me off that these people don't care enough about their kids, and makes me ask why the fuck did you have them? Anyway I hate dipping my toe into these thick topics so I'll just say I hope bad shit doesnt happen to good people (but I know it will) ever again. [/wishful thinking]