Chorus harmonies...need tips

[Skyweaver]

Listening to some of the big chorus like

Kansas - "Carry on Wayward Son"
Iron Maiden - "Run to the Hills" etc
Queen...just about any tune

I'm wondering how they get that type of "big" chorus.

I'm familiar with 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th

how many harmonies do you add to get a dirty big chorus ?

Main Vox Centre
3rd Harmony Centre
5th Harmony Centre
Uni Harmony Left
Uni Harmony Right

Reverb and compress the harmonies etc, vocalign and autotune also helpful

Anything Else?

 

[Plankis]

The most interesting harmonies to me are those that doesn't necessarily follow the main melody. If the melody goes higher the harmony maybe stays on the same note or finds a note lower.

Matt Smith had a great video where he tracked tons of layers, shows all of this. It was on his or Theocracy's myspace.
aha, found it:
http://www.myspace.com/theocracyband/videos

 

[Skyweaver]

The most interesting harmonies to me are those that doesn't necessarily follow the main melody. If the melody goes higher the harmony maybe stays on the same note or finds a note lower.

Matt Smith had a great video where he tracked tons of layers, shows all of this. It was on his or Theocracy's myspace.
aha, found it:
http://www.myspace.com/theocracyband/videos

Gold ! thanks mate !

 

[HCL]

I really like the use of three weaving harmonies that sound like straight harmonies but way bigger, it's really hard to explain because I'm retarded at theory though.

I did a really short thing with it last year, you can hear it a lot clearer around 0:35: http://soundcloud.com/holy-crap-lions/no-other

 

[Skinny Viking]

quick tip ...

get several vocalists (if you can) to sing the same melody and maybe 2 other harmony parts ... doubled and then blend them all together ... sounds WAY bigger than just quad tracking the same vocalist doing those parts

Example:

1 melody, 3 harmony parts ... lets say a 5th above, an octave above and a 3rd below

have the main vocalist sing and double each of those for a total of 8 tracks

now bring in even just one more vocalist and have them do the exact same thing

8 of the each singer, total of 16 tracks, will sound bigger and more choir-like than if you had 16 of just the one vocalist

spread them out to taste ... I don't usually like to go wider then 50% L&R but sometimes it can sound good going out to 75% or even hard panned

run all of those to a stereo bus and compress them together, throw a little ambient verb on there, done

 

[Skyweaver]

quick tip ...

get several vocalists (if you can) to sing the same melody and maybe 2 other harmony parts ... doubled and then blend them all together ... sounds WAY bigger than just quad tracking the same vocalist doing those parts

Example:

1 melody, 3 harmony parts ... lets say a 5th above, an octave above and a 3rd below

have the main vocalist sing and double each of those for a total of 8 tracks

now bring in even just one more vocalist and have them do the exact same thing

8 of the each singer, total of 16 tracks, will sound bigger and more choir-like than if you had 16 of just the one vocalist

spread them out to taste ... I don't usually like to go wider then 50% L&R but sometimes it can sound good going out to 75% or even hard panned

run all of those to a stereo bus and compress them together, throw a little ambient verb on there, done

this is great, thanks - some really cool tips

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ Its actually what Queen would do for all their big harmony parts. Brian & Roger would just sing the exact same melody and then each accompanying harmony with Freddie. Only difference is they would usually do them at the same time each part was tracked. If you don't have that luxury separate individual tracking works just fine as well

Here's a short example ... pay no attention to the music as its completely unmixed, this is from a vocal tracking session. I don't even have anything panned out and its incomplete but altogether its 6 vocal tracks ... my singer doing 3 and then 3 with myself. I don't have his range so I doubled the melody and 1st harmony up and then did one lower in relation to his higher one. I'm still gonna add one more vocalist to these parts just doubling the 6 tracks we have here so it should come out even bigger. Oh yeah, no comp and just a small delay on the main melody

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/594184/GC Clip.mp3

Last thing, yes ... be sure to tune everything really well. As for tightening the vox to each other its always best to leave a little bit of looseness ... I usually time all of the singers vocals tight to each other and then time my 1st vocal to his 1st but then the rest of the tracks I time only to mine. By the time you get a few tracks in you start to get a little bit of looseness from the original set of vocals which is just right for sounding tight to the melody but still keeping the human feel of multiple vocalist singing together

 

[StefTD]

no clue about vocal harmonies and so on...sorry, just need to write this

@Carlos-Matt Barlow???!!!
Would be great to be able to sing like this, I would drive right into a McDrive and order almost everything
just to sing it like this...

 

[Skinny Viking]

^

"I'd LIKE your LARGEST friiiiiiiiiiiiieeessss .... with a SIDE of Bar-be-QUE SAAAAAUUUUUUUCE!!!!!!"

no Barlow, just George and myself

 

[kidkunjer]

i've been complimented on my grasp of harmonies, and my technique is like this:
I play the main melody through a few times then find a pitch thats a little lower than it and it works. i try to stick to monotone as much as i can, but when the pitches clash i shift it a semitone up or down just for that part and then back to the main monotone again.
then for one slightly higher than the melody i use something i read about in a classical music website but i can't remember the word for it. it means when the melody goes up, i go down and vice versa.

but you should know that people tend to track the notes higher in pitch as the melody rather than the harmony, so if you want your higher harmonies to sound like harmonies you'll have to put them slightly lower volume in the mix then is instinctive.

usually the best harmonies are ones when you find a pitch that resonates in a really cool way to create tension and release. especially in metal you can use apparant dischords like one semitone down but an octave up (thats 11 semitones up) or the so called devils chord which is like 6 semitones up to create tension then back to a 1st or 5th for a release.

 

[Sloan]

i suggest listening to some modern country songs. fucking vocals ALL OVER THE PLACE. it's crazy as hell.

 

[KBMoser]

well ive done a bit of songwriting. usually a good go too for a chorus thats instantly big or small, rather impacting, is a melody for the chorus that uses notes you dont use during the verse. popular chord progressions work because of vocal melodies. verse melodies are generally lower in the scale working around I, V, IV, and VI. most songs have a melody that follows the tonic and goes up an interval, or tonic note and down an interval or tonic note. thats why bridges general seem to move up an interval, it puts difference in the melody and helps build tention for a chorus. Chourses are generally louder, higher in pitch and more simple in melody.

this is why its important to have a good arrangement, the best sources in the world, and the best engineer cant fix crap. Try to have your vocals in the lower registries and your chorus with more balls and drive with the music. then you can add harmonies and seperate voices for an even larger sound. most importantly, we've seen songs with many of the same chord progressions, so why fix whats broken? use a chord progression to back your original melody. lastly, i dont mean to say your music sucks, but there are tools to make writing easier and its proven. start with a melody and pair it to words. than take it to an instrument like guitar or piano so you can hear what chords will work. Chords are the easy part. i can throw together 20 different progressions in a minute but that doesnt mean ill be able to make up a melody to fit them. so trying rearrangeming your parts and stick to a more basic progression, your chorus will pop.