Classic Thrash Metal Reborn

guitarguru777

guitarguru777

Member
Nov 13, 2003
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www.jasonconstantine.com
I have been working with this band Babilos for the past year. They are 3 young guys from here Las Vegas. They are young (21 - 23) and are HUGE fans of classic thrash metal.

They put together this project about a year ago and have come a long way. The playing is still a bit sloppy but its WAY better then it was a year ago.

Im looking for some criticism on the current mix we have going. I dont have a state of the art studio but I think the product so far is coming out well.

What was used in the recording:

Peavey Valve King 1 x 12 Combo run into a Marshall 1960a with V30s
Squire M80 with Duncan Design Pickups
Late 70s Japanese Les Paul Copy with Gibson Bare Knuckle Miracle Man Pickups.

The cab was Mic'd with a Audix i5 stright on the center of the cone.

Im looking for some criticism on the mix, not really the playing as I know is sloppy, but this is what I have to work with ...lol

The mix sounds flat so far and I am hoping once mastered it will brigten it up a bit. (I dont know much about mastering)

I am also looking for ciritcism on the actual structure of the song and what you think of their song writing. Personally I am impressed as hell. I think they really capture that classic thrash vibe.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/butcher_mix1.mp3
 
OK so i did some sound replacement on the drums.

I added "The Best Kick Ever"
Andy's Snare Sample (the first one he posted)
The Chimira Toms

I think it opes the mix up a bit more and makes it a bit more metal. The samples they used when they did the original production just sucked. I still think the cymbals and hats need replacement, but I dont have any good cymbal samples.

What do you think
http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/butcher_mix2.mp3
 
Ok so for my final post for the evening ....lol (sorry i have been excited about this mix all night. 1:00am here have to be at work in 5 hours but I DONT CARE !!!..lol)

I used iZotope Ozone to add some polish to the mix. I hitting pretty hard and I think this is my best mix so far.

All the changes above plus the addition of the following:
Paragraphic EQ
-2.3 db slope starting at 70hz
-3 db center with a wide Q between 180 and 1850hz
+.03db boost at 1850hz
+2.5 db center at 7000hz with a wide Q then tapering off to 20k

Loudness Maximizer
-2db Threshold
-0.3db Margin
Character Smoothing set to 4.0
Multiband Harmonic Exciter
Mutiband Dynamics
Multiband Stereo Imaging

Here is the final result:
http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/butcher_mix5.mp3
 
Don't quad-track. Just stick to 100%-100%. And please remember that posting settings won't help us guide you. We need to hear the track, which we can't 'cause your final link is broken.

Please remember that we're not interested in what you're doing with the loudness maximer. We're more interested in the amount of gain reduction you're having. But tell me this: Why did you even bother putting in Ozone without finalizing the mix?
 
The mix was lacking the sparkle on that I was looking for.

As the for the final link. its working for me.

Still not working for you?

The one before the final one has no ozone on it.

As for the quad traking, I the les paul is significantly lower in the mix. The "lead" guitarist suffers from "the new generation of guitar players that only play leads" syndrome. I had to have him in there a little cause they kept questioning me about where his parts were in the mix when I took them out. They totally agree that without them the playing was tighter. But alas they wouldn't budge on not having them in there or having the other guy play it.

I did 4 cause I couldn't just have the 2 guys playing with each other left and right. It sounded 1000 times sloppier then this.
 
I think that last clip sounds really good. I'd actually bring the guitars up a little bit, though, and give the drums a bit more ambience, they sound pretty dry. The parts where the singer goes high, though, sound dumb...and bad. But that's a performance thing. He doesn't do it like how the dudes in the 80's did it, so he should just cut it out.
 
The final link is working for me now. Not bad, apart from a few stinkers.

1. The cymbals are pumping in a fatiguing manner. Or is it that you applied very little compression to the ohs and ozone is responsible for all the pumping? Hard to say.
2. The snare sounds a bit too independent. It needs a bit of a high-end support from the other instruments. Not saying it lacks high-end, but you get the point. It's flying off in a different direction.
3. The bass is too tubby and its relationship with the guitar is too much of a turn-off.
4. The vocals need more grit. A useful amount of saturation would help. If you already did that, do it more. ;)
5. The drums need a tad more ambience.
6. I understand why the guitars lack a bit of gain, but considering the players you're dealing with you might wanna put a compressor before the amp.
 
Ill need to read up a bit on how to DI properly in order to do that...lol

I hear what your saying about the bass. Any suggestions as to getting a good bass tone. I looked through the forum a bit but didn't find anything that I own that would work properly. The bass was run into a whilwind DI then straight into my little 4 Channel Sound Craft mixer.

This is what I have that "could be" useful

NI Guitar Rig 1 and 2
Revalver MKII
I could mic my little bass amp

Mics I own:
Beta 52
SM57
Audix i5
SM58

Everything is being recorded into a set of Alesis M1 Active monitors. Its the only interface I have into the PC other than the PC's line in. Well I also have an M-Audio transit USB. I so need to buy a good interface .. ughhh.

What could I do with the current gear I have to make it better?

As for the snare:
When you say sounds a bit too independent, and It needs a bit of a high-end support from the other instruments. Does that mean I should just boost some of the high frequencies in the guitars and vocals?

Vocals:
You said the vocals could use more grit, in what way? As part of the performance, or in post? By the way they were recorded with a 58 in a bathroom ...lol

Guitars: Should i just re-track the guitars with a bit more high end and a bit more gain? Maybe I should I just really get with the program and start re-amping ...lol

COBHC ---- Sorry dude those solos are all mine ....lol
 
Ok so I made some small changes including the ones suggested above.

Panned guitars out 100 / 80 instead of 100 / 45
Added more room verb to the OH's and cymbals overall
Added a bit of grit on the bass through guitar rig (still too tubby?)
Took out the delays on the high screeching.

I spoke to the band and have been able to convince them to retrack the guitars using only steve (the better of the 2 players)

We also found some programming errors in the drums and have decided to fix all of those.

They will be back here tomorrow night to start re0tracking guitars (possibly use the fredman technique, not sure but Ill track them and I can always take out the 2nd mic later)

But for this mix I think its alot better what do you think?

FYI this has no mastering on it, i dont think the highs are pumping anymore as they were earlier. I am posting it without it. I can do a mastered version too if you like.

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/butcher_mix6.mp3
 
Martin Linda said:
sorry, I think that mix5 was waaay better. Mix5 was living. Mix6 is dead and artificial. Everywhere too much and too long reverb.
Click to expand...

Well 5 had the mastering on it. 6 is no mastering on it at all. I kind of agree on the reverbs. Funny thing is i barely brought up the verb at all and it made this major difference. Maybe i should be using a different type of verb.

Im using a medium room on the OH's, Toms, Snare and an additional small plate on the Snare.

I think i like the guitars place in the mix better on 6.

Let me post a version with mastering shit on it and see if you think its better compared to 5. Mix 4 would be a better comparison for 6, as it was the same mix with 5 without the mastering effects on it.

Be back in a few.
 
Ok, when I listen to mix 4, than the judgment is not so obvious. But still I must say, that I like the snare and kick more in mix 4 than in mix 6. Also wide panning on guitars is not very pleasant for me.
 
nwright said:
I think that last clip sounds really good. I'd actually bring the guitars up a little bit, though, and give the drums a bit more ambience, they sound pretty dry. The parts where the singer goes high, though, sound dumb...and bad. But that's a performance thing. He doesn't do it like how the dudes in the 80's did it, so he should just cut it out.
Click to expand...

Destruction still do it and it`s pretty obvious that this song is meant as tribute to them.The song title alone gives it away.Destruction has how many Butcher songs 4, 5 ?
 
DaWolf said:
Destruction still do it and it`s pretty obvious that this song is meant as tribute to them.The song title alone gives it away.Destruction has how many Butcher songs 4, 5 ?
Click to expand...

I've heard the bands in question that sing in this style...While it is not my cup of tea, it's from a different era than I am, and it is what it is.

However, this vocalist on THIS recording doing it sounds dumb and baaaad. He just can't pull it off like the guys back in the day did. He sounds like he is just aping that style for a joke, or making fun of it. It's not a convincing performance at all, nor an example of that "technique". Just doesn't sound good to me.

*shrug*
 
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