Clipping on the master

[CubanDude]

Hey guys,

I'm close to selling my whole shitload of stuff and turn my fucking back on this whole thing. I've spended so much fucking time on mixing an album and now I apparently killed it on the master, just didn't realize it cause my ears were way too tired because the band came up with a deadline out of nowhere, so that's why I was in a rush.
anyway, problem is: one of the songs is clipping terribly during guitars only passages and tom runs. I can think of where the toms-issue come from, cause I automated them up quite a bit (I always have a hard time getting the toms to sound good and cut through the mix ) but where the hell does the guitar issue come from? it also occurs during ringouts. seems illogical to me since it should be a rather quite part and everything is fine when the whole band plays.

I already did a search on it and the only answer is could find was "automate them down". Is this still so? And why? I just don't get it.. Why does this quieter part clip?

My mastering chain was: Slate VCC, Baxter EQ, 2 instances of Gclip, Slate FXG.

Thanks in advance

 

[Deathmetal616]

Post an audio example. That would help!

 

[domingooo]

Have you use a multi band compresor on your guitars?

Start removing things untill the clip stops..... then... work on get a better control of the clipping thing

 

[CubanDude]

yeah, i could post an example, but the band hasn't released the material yet.. -.O guess i'm not allowed to.. by the way.. yeah, that's right, they wanna release it although i told them not to.. and no, no multiband compression on the guitars. I just don't get why it's not clipping when the whole band plays but does when the guitar plays alone...?!

 

[Skaldir]

Fx-g is more a clipper than a limiter, so its no wonder guitars (pad like sound) clip as far as gain reaches 0.
It also clips when the whole band plays but you can't hear it when drums are making the peaks.
If its only a few parts I would suggest to automate the guitars down where they play alone.
Or use a limiter and not a clipper

 

[CubanDude]

Really? So you'd rather suggest using Elephant? I have a hard time letting FXG go since it's one of my more expensive plugins (well, Elephant is also not that cheap).. I just decided to go home tomorrow (I study 200km away from home and will leave work tomorrow quite early to have enough time to fix this at night -.- ), so any further tipps are appreciated!

 

[Plankis]

There's nothing strange with guitars clipping solo'd, it's a common thing you hear on both professional releases and in the rate my mix-zone, the compressor pulls down the volume on the whole band to a similar volume as the solo'd guitars. This is a VERY important thing to always have in mind when in mastering mode. I suggest you check how much gain reduction you have on the loudest parts then go back to the calmer parts and lower those with the GR value to regain some macrodynamics.

If you absolutely have to use FXG, use it before Elephant. Now FXG's job is to cut peaks, preferably drumpeaks, only. Then use Elephant to get your loudness.

 

[CubanDude]

sweet... this means i don't use the gain knob on the fxg? and also bypass the dithering on the fxg because it should happen at the very end of my mastering chain? and, do i get this right: you suggest i automate the volume down a bit in my solo'd parts when mastering? thanks guys for your help, you rock. i only have tomorrow night and i really should have a plan for that few hours

and, to add that: I don't have to use the fxg for the sake of having this "expensive" plugin in my chain, i just saw that many people like it. but if you tell me to rather use elephant, i'll go with that (and if elephant is much more likely to be foolproof).

 

[Plankis]

Yeah, no gain knob (unless for makeup gain) and no dithering.
Automate like a mofo. Remember this old Yoda-quote: "Without quiet there can be no loud".
Re: peaks That depends on what kind of peaks you have. Are they out control, like >3dB's louder than the rest of the sounds, you may need a clipper to get your loudness. I don't own FXG so I don't know how it looks like but GClip has a nice interface that shows the waveform and what is clipped, it's a great plugin for getting a intuitive sense of what's happening.

 

[CubanDude]

yeah, i actually loved using gclip - used it all the time before I got FXG. Okay, that's great information, thanks a lot. So, just to sum up: I use my EQ to taste, then I clip the highest peaks (only the highest peaks, right?) with two back to back Gclips and add a few dB, then I comp with FXG and shoot for around 2-3dB GR with 2:1 ratio (?!) and finally get my loundness with Elephant. Does this sound right? And when I render (I'm a Reaper user) I just check "dither" and "noise shaping" in Reaper... So far, so good...?

And if there's any of you guys who's using Slate FXG and is more experienced than I am, feel free to chime in!

 

[Mutant]

As a last resort you can try automatically declipping it with ReLife:

http://www.terrywest.nl/utils.html

But of course it is always better to avoid creating unwanted clipping in the first place.

 

[lee_mulcahy]

Try automating the ITP down (on FG-X) on the parts which are clipping:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/9476585-post19.html

Also, http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/9769838-post168.html

You shouldn't need the two gclips with fg-x as well to get the volume you want, fg-x is more than capable of getting you as loud as you need, not to say you can't use the gclips as well if you want to, at the end of the day as long as it sounds good that's all that matters!

 

[KHE]

i had a simliar problem recently. i've inserted some g-clip instances on the 2nd-bus, all adjusted for very very slightly clipping the drum-hits/transients. but somehow, also the guitars started to clip. finally, i've decoded the 2nd-bus to M/S, clipped the mid and side-signal different, and encoded it back to L/R (M/S de- and encoding done with Voxengo MSDE). worked very well in this case. btw, i really like it now to check the fully processed 2nd-bus in M/S, means only the mid-signal or only the side-signal (in mono) to hear whats going on there (clipping guitars sometimes got masked by the mid-signal, so it's sometimes hard to hear it in normal L/R).

cheers, markus

 

[CubanDude]

great help, guys, keep it coming... will check that out this night. man, I hope I can fix this. But I'd rather go with a quieter master than a clipping master.

 

[Skaldir]

Btw. when you use Elephant on Clip mode with the same gain as Fg-x you will also get clipping on guitar parts btw. in a limiting mode el-1, el-2... you don't.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[raisedfist]

From trying FG-X I have had the same problem. If I used Pro L on the master bus just to and then FG-X = horrid clipping and same with gclip. So i tried just outputing from cubase and then EQ>FG-X and there was no clipping. I just use Pro L on the end now, its safer and more controllable

 

[CubanDude]

Haha, makes me feel alot better that apparently I'm not the only one who ran into this problem. I try to figure this out in the next few hours and make me a happy man again

 

[Audio X]

anyway, problem is: one of the songs is clipping terribly during guitars only passages and tom runs. I can think of where the toms-issue come from, cause I automated them up quite a bit (I always have a hard time getting the toms to sound good and cut through the mix ) but where the hell does the guitar issue come from? it also occurs during ringouts. seems illogical to me since it should be a rather quite part and everything is fine when the whole band plays.

I'd go back and check the gain staging in the mix and find the source of clipping and get the toms sounding right before attempting to master. You might be clipping a plug on the toms and etc. Get the mix right and then master.. Distortion is only going to accumulate down the line when you make mp3's etc 2c

 

[MaorAppelbaumMastering]

This problem you mention happens a lot especialy during the combined process of Mixing & Mastering or when a mix is taken to the upper volume ranges.

Basicly it is gaining the already gained signal and clips it .
when there are a lot of instruments playing at the same time the clipping can " Feel" masked by the combinatin of all the instruments and there added sound - but its still there hiding and appearing somtimes in certain areas.
When they become solo instruments or there are areas that open for a certain instrument to come out more or dynamicly get lowered you start to notice the clipping.

One way to deal with it is really about automating the instruments as the mix develops - being dynamic with it - its a longer process but you can actualy find what causes it to react more

The other way is changing the way you process the mix buss.

try changing the gain knob - it might do the trick.
in some cases its just having the right gain stage

 

[Trevoire520]

My mastering chain was: Slate VCC, Baxter EQ, 2 instances of Gclip, Slate FXG.

I wonder if it's the fact that you're using 2 g clips AND Slate FGX that's causing problems? I always thought the whole point of FGX was that you used it exclusively as your loudness portion of the mastering chain. With it having a dynamic input signal to work with, so it can give you loudness while still retaining a dynamic sounding mix?
If you're already smashing everything with your clippers what is there left for FGX to do?