Controlling Low End for Low tunings

[Trep]

I've got an Artist coming to record in a few weeks who will be tuning to Drop F.

Assuming the guitars and Bass will be setup correctly with appropriate string gauge, and will have a good action and have been intonated well, Does anybody have any tips on controlling the bottom end in these instruments, especially bass.

What will help me achieve clarity and note articulation both when dialling in tones and in post/mixing.

More and more bands seem to be tuning lower and lower, Would love to hear some experiences about it and ways to deal with so much in that end of the spectrum.

Cant we just go back to Standard Tuning haha?!?

 

[RedDog]

Tune the bass UP. work as if it's a salvage job.

 

[The Unavoidable]

If it works, then it works. But yeah, you might want to be prepared that the bass might have alot of issues if they indeed tune it all the way down. An alternative there could be as mentioned to tune the bass up to F. Meshuggah does this, if you are looking for a point of reference. Otherwise, it's not like these instruments are going to have INSANE low end just becuse they are tuned down, it's still pretty much the same thing. If anything you'll be losing clarity, so make sure you got alot of that on the way in.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Don't forget that control is also in the hands of the player.Compression will definitely help in general

 

[tempe]

You're basically going to have to punch in every single note change if you want the bass to really be in tune, also it doesn't really produce sub at all tuned this low so your bass tone will be all about the low mids, keep the bass fairly clean and give it a big push at around 400hz, that way you might get some more note definition. If you find you're lacking sub, program a sine wave synth following the bass part.

For a reference of this sound check out this track http://youtu.be/IrUodQTv_Po

 

[egan.]

I'm in the tune the bass up camp unless the guy rolls in with a vampyre or something designed to work that low. You are going to have enough intonation issues with the guitars.

 

[RedDog]

Your fundamental is below your monitors audible capability if you tune that low on bass. Don't argue, it really is. Just tune up and cut the low dumb shit out of your guitars. I feel like the DI guitars would need treatment before reamp, a lot of amps, including sims would just flub out. Does this dude really need to tune that low?

 

[Trep]

Awesome stuff. Thanks!

I'm definitely going to try working with a tuned up bass. I would really like to experiment with using a synth based approach for some of the ultra lows. While time consuming, the sine wave would definitely hold down some of that sub frequency sustain.

I also want to hit the Di feed up with some melodyne treatment before reamp.

I've heard of Will Putney taking a similar approach to synth reinforcement and tuned up bass before too, and those mixes really have some peculiar low end.

 

[Fandus]

I would honestly just program that, unless they agree to tune up. The only usable thing when dropped that low is the string rattle, so you may as well save the time and effort and use Trillian or Zombass.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

My tip:

Don't make the bass one octave lower than the guitars in this case: make it unison with the guitars, but then treat them as guitars and bass.
Remember that you will have to lowpass guitars at around 50Hz, and rely on C4 for the boom control, otherwise it will sound too thin.
For bass, make it tight as hell, but with low end in mind, as guitars won't be that thick in the mix.

PS: Don't forget that the entire frequency range will be shifted down from what you would use for a regular tuning.

 

[HCL]

Tuning is NOT a problem if you have the right strings and bass. Using a 34 inch scale probably wont cut it.

I say tune it lower, but that's just me.

 

[crillemannen]

An F in that low octave is what, under 20hz?? You wont get anything good audio able from that. Tune it up and as ppl said still treat it as a bassguitar

 

[mstone564]

Ask them to tune up, and if they complain explain that the higher octave will sound like it has more low end because a low F doesn't even register or is audible.

 

[MotherEel]

Surely they would know they aren't hearing the low F if they listen to the bass in rehearsal, right?

 

[TheWinterSnow]

When these threads come a long and everyone suggests tunning up the bass, I can somewhat agree. I personally don't think its right though for the bass to be in unison when the guitars aren't playing ridiculously low stuff like staying on the B string or higher. My solution was to tune only the low F up an octave and tune the rest of the bass normally, kind of like a 5 string banjo setup. It would be like a normal bass guitar during relatively normal pitches and then when the gutiar engage on the low F...BAM!!! Bass is now in unison with the guitars. One of my biggest grips with Meshuggah's sound and other copy bands is you can tell the bass is tuned up, it sounds weird, lacks the low end a bass should add to a mix when they aren't playing low enough to summon satan.

Of course you would need custom strings for that but, still completely worth a shot. One of my biggest grips with Meshuggah's sound is you can tell the bass is tuned up, it sounds weird, lacks the low end a bass should add to a mix.

As for the mix, muticomp on the master, side chain compress the kick to the bass and the guitars, just a little bit, not a lot, you want to control low end with eq and good tone, let a multicomp take care of residual dynamics in the low end.

Surely they would know they aren't hearing the low F if they listen to the bass in rehearsal, right?

its called overtones, note @ 2:28