court ruling: city has right to seize citizen property

[Tyra]

Well, I realize that I am speaking out of turn here, because I am not a US citizen, and as usual, it is easy to find fault in others (there are just as many assenine things going on in French, German and - not to mention - Brittish politics, to name a few, as there are in the US, only the US has more world power so we tend to notice more), but it needs to be mentioned, that those countries that have the highest voter turnout have the least amount of complaints about the people in power. This is a HUGE problem for the US, where at one point, some years ago, voter turnout was so incredibly low that it would have taken a whole, huge 13% of the total votes to win the election with a bigger margin than Geroge W had to beat Kerry! Then you might as well be a monarchy, because if only the well-to-do, litterate people vote, you are repeating the same pattern that the Normans used!
And for the record, there is a HUGE fucking difference between us and the US. That's like comparing Sweden to the UK, to put it into some kind of perspective that you can relate to.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Haha, hh whatever, I believe it when I see it.
THrymfal, I'm not sure I understood you correctly, but I mean liberal in the european sense, you know, less government intervention, lower txes etc. as opposed to the socilists who are usually quite uniberal. The most liberal point of view is probabbly anarchism, and I suppose it's the most capitalist one to... öh, whatever..

 

[Feraliminal Lycanthropizer]

Strictly speaking, the government having more power than it needs is very liberal, considering that Communism (not true marxism, I know the difference) and Socialism preach pwerful central governments who officially lord over all aspects of the everday life. On the same note, the most truly conservative point of view is anarchy, and everything else falls somewhere in between.

no, Communism puts the people's welfare in the hands of the central planners and economists, while libretarianism put the people in their own hands.

 

[Billy Steele]

@Feraliminal: My comment was sarcastic, but I can see your comment being true too, though in that case it'll be a little more severe than an earthquake, as at least one nation will likely be obliterated. Fuck it: the Valkyries will find me.

@Arch: I got a good laugh out of your link! If only I had proper funds to contribute...

 

[Thrymfal]

no, Communism puts the people's welfare in the hands of the central planners and economists, while libretarianism put the people in their own hands.

I know, that's what i was getting at. Myself being a libertarian, i fear and loathe big governments, a la communism, where the fate is controlled by the state (poetry!).

Interesting that the european idea of liberal is smaller goverment and less taxation, as in the states that's the primary stand of the conservative parties. The american liberals, primarily the democrats, want to strengthen the federal government, increase taxation and have more control over the market.

 

[Feraliminal Lycanthropizer]

I know, that's what i was getting at. Myself being a libertarian, i fear and loathe big governments, a la communism, where the fate is controlled by the state (poetry!).

Interesting that the european idea of liberal is smaller goverment and less taxation, as in the states that's the primary stand of the conservative parties. The american liberals, primarily the democrats, want to strengthen the federal government, increase taxation and have more control over the market.

ok, i see where i err on your initial post, but this one does not make sense to me. Liberals realize that the free-market can provide oppurtunities on its own, thus they are generally against the idea of a strong government. Government subsidies are a result if bigger government. When Walmart got a shitload of money to build from a the government to build a new store in a parking lot-- most libs were against that. That sort of thing wouldnt happen in a smaller government.

 

[Finktron]

Thrymfal has it right here. The foundation of the liberal party is the belief in a stronger central government. Welfare and the like are all democrat ideas, where conservatives are more along the lines off less interference by the government in the lives of every day people, ie fight for yourselves and if you are poor, sucks to be you.

 

[Feraliminal Lycanthropizer]

I am so fucking confused. Free makrets, individualism arew the tenets of radical liberalism. and i dont mean some kid on a skateboard listening to aus-rotten well ive been up for 34 hours doing a stupid STUPID STUPID history assignment so my day has been prettyconfusing nontheless. did you know the netherlands was a part oft he hapsburg?

 

[Tyra]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! omfg!
Do you know what the final irony in this court case is? The court justice, the judge who decided the outcome of the case, and who sided with the developers and the city to force the homeowners out, well, there's now a developer wanting to force him out of his own home in New Hampshire! And they say justice is blind...(smirk).

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

I know, that's what i was getting at. Myself being a libertarian, i fear and loathe big governments, a la communism, where the fate is controlled by the state (poetry!).

Interesting that the european idea of liberal is smaller goverment and less taxation, as in the states that's the primary stand of the conservative parties. The american liberals, primarily the democrats, want to strengthen the federal government, increase taxation and have more control over the market.

exactly!

am i getting you right: you call yourself a libertarian, because you are in favour less government intervention etc., not a liberal, which in the american sense of the term would mean that you're left winged and support the ideas of social democracy and smilair things, what we in europe call socialism?

 

[Finktron]

Yea I am pretty sure you are getting the gist of what he is saying.

 

[M.]

Yeah, Tyra, they plan to build the "Lost Liberties Hotel" with a museum dedicated to the destruction of american freedoms 8)

http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html

 

[Sumerian]

Thrymfal has it right here. The foundation of the liberal party is the belief in a stronger central government. Welfare and the like are all democrat ideas, where conservatives are more along the lines off less interference by the government in the lives of every day people, ie fight for yourselves and if you are poor, sucks to be you.

You guys are way too eager to simplify everything down into substanceless categories. The US government has never been bigger then under conservative republican administrations (it is the most conservative it has ever been, the lagest in size and scope, and the most deficit spending in history) and if you monitor the way US forign and domestic policy is handled, it is all corporate run and lobbied for. The bigger the "gov", the more power lobyists have in using the gov to administer their will. The true ideal of more government is for more checks and ballances, rules and penalties for market fairness, and a way to provide everyday people with a vioce against the "strong" institutions. It is funny that thats all you hear these lobbyists and conservative congressmen talking about, trying to scare everyone with talks of "liberal big government" and centralized "evil government" power. What a joke.

 

[Feraliminal Lycanthropizer]

My initial post was headed towards was that most radically libertarian ideas hold that borders should be open and people should be able to travel from country to country freely. The isolationism is mainly military isolationism, i.e. no more foreign adventures, no more tax dollars going to prop up crappy governments and no more taxpayer-funded foreign aid, most of which is wasted anyway. and this is accountable by the people.

 

[Thrymfal]

exactly!

am i getting you right: you call yourself a libertarian, because you are in favour less government intervention etc., not a liberal, which in the american sense of the term would mean that you're left winged and support the ideas of social democracy and smilair things, what we in europe call socialism?

precisely!

You guys are way too eager to simplify everything down into substanceless categories. The US government has never been bigger then under conservative republican administrations (it is the most conservative it has ever been, the lagest in size and scope, and the most deficit spending in history) and if you monitor the way US forign and domestic policy is handled, it is all corporate run and lobbied for. The bigger the "gov", the more power lobyists have in using the gov to administer their will. The true ideal of more government is for more checks and ballances, rules and penalties for market fairness, and a way to provide everyday people with a vioce against the "strong" institutions. It is funny that thats all you hear these lobbyists and conservative congressmen talking about, trying to scare everyone with talks of "liberal big government" and centralized "evil government" power. What a joke.

first of all, you are right, the parties, particularly the one in pwer now, are hypocritical when it comes to what they say vs. what they do, which is why i'm not a member of either of them. Indeed the Bush Admin. has made a bigger more centralized and frighteningly powerful government, the opposite of what he calimed, and by party affiliation is supposed to do, but hey, as the saying goes, Fuck Republicans. Also, i can understand your points about what government should be for, and although i disagree a bit, i see where you're coming from. As for my fear of big government, well, with i.d. cards and tracking devices in passports, not to mention the ole patriot act, i'd say i'm fairly justified. Lobbyism should be illegal.

My initial post was headed towards was that most radically libertarian ideas hold that borders should be open and people should be able to travel from country to country freely. The isolationism is mainly military isolationism, i.e. no more foreign adventures, no more tax dollars going to prop up crappy governments and no more taxpayer-funded foreign aid, most of which is wasted anyway. and this is accountable by the people.

yeah, i'm not quite the most radical of libertarians by any measure, but that sounds like more of a utopia to me than,say, a marxist society.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

I agree with sumerian that we geeralised a bit too much, i was a afraid that that would've happened, but whatever...

From (2008 i think) that all passports issued in sweden will carry fingerprints.

Speaking of isolationism, i read the title of an article in maor swedish newspaper saying that canada wants to strengthen her influence in the rest of the world, and it made me ask myself "What does USA gain from her position (political influence, wars etc.) in this global village of ours, any ideas? And don't say oil or some bs like that, hehe

And to all you 'yanks', as we call all americans here in europe, happy independence day or whatever you say

 

[Feraliminal Lycanthropizer]

And to all you 'yanks', as we call all americans here in europe, happy independence day or whatever you say

BBQ on the grill and Deathspell Omega blasting from the speakers (and firwork from the sky). The pool is free game, as long as you dont pee in it like a first grader.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

nice^^