curse of the 1st album.

baldyboy

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Sep 2, 2003
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as the deadline approaches for my bands first album to released,i've been thinking about the bands that did thier first album and then totally failed to live up to expectations in subsequent recordings.(not that i worry about us you understand).
who gets your vote for this one?
they may not be quite oldschool,but for me its life of agony.river runs red ruled,but the albums after made me shudder.
so-come on boys,who let you down the most after blowin you hardest first time round? :D ;)
 
baldyboy said:
as the deadline approaches for my bands first album to released,i've been thinking about the bands that did thier first album and then totally failed to live up to expectations in subsequent recordings.(not that i worry about us you understand).
who gets your vote for this one?
they may not be quite oldschool,but for me its life of agony.river runs red ruled,but the albums after made me shudder.
so-come on boys,who let you down the most after blowin you hardest first time round? :D ;)
That's easy, Blackstar-Barbed Wire Soul. The remaining members of Carcass put out the promos, and got a few no-name "magazine" writers to give it good reviews, even though the album was still months away from being released. I of course, got excited, ordered an advanced copy, thinking it's got to be good, it's 3/4 of the Carcass line up. WRONG, VERY WRONG!!!!Jeff Walker(vocals) actually tried to sing on this album! About 2/3 of the album musically was decent, but they went too much the straight ahead rock approach, with absolutely the wrong vocal approach. If they just included a true lead "singer", it would have been good, but Jeff Walker just can't sing...growl brutally, yes, but sadly not sing.
 
ummm...i know i'll probably get flamed for this...but, Slayer-Show No Mercy. This is their first and best album. None of their other albums come close to it's greatness. Not even REIGN IN BLOOD. So, come and get me, flamers, i'm ready rock.
 
Wicked Child said:
ummm...i know i'll probably get flamed for this...but, Slayer-Show No Mercy. This is their first and best album. None of their other albums come close to it's greatness. Not even REIGN IN BLOOD. So, come and get me, flamers, i'm ready rock.

You little Bastard how dare you express your own opinions here Slayer Rules Little man How dare you soil thier name with you incompitent ramblings



JUST KIDDING DUDE lol :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco: :loco:
 
Here are some bands I think put out a killer first album they could never match afterwards (not counting bands like Vinnie Vincent Invasion, Spread Eagle, Roxx Gang, Pretty Boy Floyd etc who have only released a couple of studio albums, coz most small-scale hair bands put out 1 killer debut then just a couple of crappier releases after like best ofs or comeback albums etc):

WASP (WASP, 1984)
Warrant (Dirty Rotten Filthy Stinkin Rich, 1988)
Cinderella (Night Songs, 1986)
LA Guns (LA Guns, 1987)
Guns N Roses (Appetite For Destruction, 1987)
Dio (Holy Diver, 1983)
Harem Scarem (Harem Scarem, 1991)
Skid Row (Skid Row, 1989)

I think alot of bands hit their peak with their 2nd album though, such as: Firehouse, Slaughter, Motley Crue, Metallica, Megadeth, etc.

I think its interesting that some bands didn't hit their peak till later in their career. For example Whitesnake whose best albums are clearly their last 2 studio albums in '87 and '89. Also Bon Jovi didn't really get it perfect until Slippery When Wet when Desmond got involved, Kiss didn't hit their peak till Eric & Vinnie were in the band together, Def Leppard really hit their peak with Hysteria (yeah from a metal perspective High N Dry is more rockin but Def Leppard overall are a melodic arena rock band whether you like it or not), AC/DC hit their peak with Back In Black, and Ratt's best album I think is Detonator when they added a great extra sense of melody and catchiness to the tunes. And Alice imo hit two equal peaks, the first when he ditched "The Alice Cooper Band" and released Welcome To My Nightmare, and the second when he went hair metal from Constrictor through to Hey Stoopid.

And I agree too, Show No Mercy is Slayer's best album by a long shot and the only one I can even listen to these days. After that they went down the toilet, but Seasons In The Abyss had a few great moments which was a surprise.
 
The Trooper said:
Dio (Holy Diver, 1983)

Kiss didn't hit their peak till Eric & Vinnie were in the band together

You've officially blown my mind, Trooper!

To me, all of Dio's 80's albums were great. He did get a little lost there in the 90's but he's back on track now.

As for your statement about KISS..... Are you out of your ever lovin' mind??!!! Not trying to flame you here or anything (I very much enjoy talking to you here on the brd) but that's the craziest thing I've seen posted since I got here. I know it's all a matter opinion but I don't get that statement at all! By 1980 Kiss was for the most part done, they became trend followers from there on out. Don't get me wrong, I like some of the 80's albums, but they are not original sounding. Nothing they have released since 1980 even comes close to any of the 70's albums. I'm I alone on this guys? Do other people on the broard like the 80's KISS better than the 70's KISS?

Not trying to flame you Trooper. It's just that 1970's KISS is very special to my generation..... I guess they are kinda like the Beatles of my gen. They inspired kids to want to play rock-n-roll. Ask any guitar player my age who first inspired them to play and the answer 75% of the time will be Ace. I'm not saying they are the greatest band of all times, their not, but they do mean allot to me. To me they are like Metallica, at the turn of the decade they went to shit just like Metallica did 10 years later.

Sorry about all that!! Just had to state my opinion on that one (which is just that, my stupid opinion). :)
 
Wicked Child said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I was actually expecting that!

I didnt want to Disapoint you my friend :D



Though I do have one for this

Jackyl I fuckin Love Jackyl Their first album was perfect and theres a good reason for it they had years on the indy scene to perfect those songs and when it came time to do a second album they had to start from Scratch .... I think this happenes to alot of bands and that is one reason why sophmore efforts sometimes bomb
 
About Dio, I agree everything he did in the '80s was awesome! I just mean that Holy Diver is his best album! I also LOOOVE Sacred Heart and Last In Line and Lock Up The Wolves has some great stuff too.... so yeah I didn't mean that he lost track after Holy Diver, he certainly kept up the high quality, but Holy Diver is the opus of his career imo.

About Kiss, I totally agree that the '70s era had something far more special going for it. I just wish I was there to experience it, and even to me its easily the most magical era of their career. Also I agree that they turned crap at the turn of the decade (I don't like Dynasty, Unmasked has some great stuff but also some bad stuff and sounds far too pop, and The Elder is interesting but they lost their rock sound except for 3 tracks).

But album wise, I think their best and most consistent albums were those between '82-'92. Creatures was a HUGE comeback with the best drum sound I've ever heard and Lick It Up is their most consistent fillerifree album I think. Then I reckon Animalize, Asylum and Crazy Nights are all totally awesome because they really are Paul Stanley albums, and its no secret that Paul is by far the best vocalist and writer in the band. Then Hot In The Shade has a stack of awesome tracks too (but the usual filler from Gene) and Revenge is also a killer album. Musically and album-wise, I think Creatures through to Revenge had the best songwriting and musicianship and were great albums.

The '70s era was the most magical but the albums (to me anyway) were alot patchier because you had 4 members writing and singing, which means less stuff by Paul. And Paul's songs are ALWAYS the best. Gene has some classics but lots of filler.
 
JonnyD said:
Jackyl I fuckin Love Jackyl Their first album was perfect and theres a good reason for it they had years on the indy scene to perfect those songs and when it came time to do a second album they had to start from Scratch .... I think this happenes to alot of bands and that is one reason why sophmore efforts sometimes bomb

I love that album too!
 
The Trooper said:
I love that album too!

Have you listened to the albums after that one? they are pretty good just nothing compared to such classics as "When will it rain","Down on me","She LOVES my COCK",and the "LumberJack" :D I'v been getting back into the ol bands from the early '90s as of late I dont know why but I have the strangest urge to listen to Trixter I hate Trixter lol
 
The Trooper said:
About Kiss, I totally agree that the '70s era had something far more special going for it. I just wish I was there to experience it, and even to me its easily the most magical era of their career. Also I agree that they turned crap at the turn of the decade (I don't like Dynasty, Unmasked has some great stuff but also some bad stuff and sounds far too pop, and The Elder is interesting but they lost their rock sound except for 3 tracks).

But album wise, I think their best and most consistent albums were those between '82-'92. Creatures was a HUGE comeback with the best drum sound I've ever heard and Lick It Up is their most consistent fillerifree album I think. Then I reckon Animalize, Asylum and Crazy Nights are all totally awesome because they really are Paul Stanley albums, and its no secret that Paul is by far the best vocalist and writer in the band. Then Hot In The Shade has a stack of awesome tracks too (but the usual filler from Gene) and Revenge is also a killer album. Musically and album-wise, I think Creatures through to Revenge had the best songwriting and musicianship and were great albums.

The '70s era was the most magical but the albums (to me anyway) were alot patchier because you had 4 members writing and singing, which means less stuff by Paul. And Paul's songs are ALWAYS the best. Gene has some classics but lots of filler.

I think it comes down to when you first get into a band, you can appreciate all of their albums but the stuff you hear first is usually your favorite (it's kinda like that for me anyways). I'm guessing you're a bit younger than me so the 80's albums may have made a bigger impact on you. Some of the 80's releases I like (hell, I even went to see them on the Asylum tour), but overall they don't hold up to the 70's stuff (for me).

Nice reply by the way, you stated you opinion very nicely. I was half afraid that you would get mad about what I posted and blast me. :)

One other thing we may have to disagree on is Gene's songs, I think they're every bit as good as a Paul song. But to be honest the few that Ace wrote / sang on are the best! .... Shock Me, 2000 Man (Stones cover), Torpedo Girl, New York Groove.... they don't get any better than that!
 
baldyboy said:
good to see everyones got some opinions on this one.
machine head are another band for me with this.nothing quite compares to burn my eyes.the new albums pretty good,but thier first one was just awsome.

Machine Head is a perfect example Burn My eyes was great But I'v hated everything since lol
 
There are several bands that had that problem. You have your whole life to write your first release and one or two years to write your next. One that comes to my mind that wasn't mentioned is Tesla's "Mechanical Resonance." It was absolutely stellar and though the follow-up "The Great Radio Controversy" was a fine release, it wasn't even close to the first.

Bryant
 
baldyboy said:
good to see everyones got some opinions on this one.
machine head are another band for me with this.nothing quite compares to burn my eyes.the new albums pretty good,but thier first one was just awsome.
JonnyD said:
Machine Head is a perfect example Burn My eyes was great But I'v hated everything since lol
Okay, guys that's it for me! I won't talk to you anymore! :yell: :D
*sigh* I really don't understand why everybody is so negative about them. Machine Head is my favourite band in the more extreme section of Metal and I love every single album by them.


The Trooper said:
...Guns N Roses
...Whitesnake
...Def Leppard
...AC/DC
...Alice Cooper...when he went hair metal from Constrictor through to Hey Stoopid
I'm with you, Trooper. I agree with you on the above quoted. As for Kiss I like the years from 1987 to 1993 the most. Creatures Of The Night was also a killer album that can easily outmatch many of the 70s albums. The ones I totally disagree on are Skid Row. The debut is a real killer, no doubt about it. But Slave to the Grind is even better!

The name I'd like to throw in is Tyketto. Strength In Numbers isn't bad by any means but Don't Come Easy simply rules. One of the best albums ever!
 
sorry sarge,didnt mean to make you cry!!!!!
i'm not saying that the other machine head albums are bad,i've got most of them-the more things change was good,the burning red was too.i wasnt so keen on supercharger and i really like the new one"through the ashes of empires".
its just that thier first album was soooooo good.
 
Ohhh yeah Don't Come Easy is by far the best Tyketto album. Great record!

Greeno, actually my first Kiss album was Double Platinum then Alive & Alive II, as well as the Kiss My Ass video, and through seeing them in 1997 on the Reunion Tour when I was 14, so I actually got into through the make-up era. But I think maybe just coz my fave kinda stuff is sleaze/hair metal is probably why I like the non-makeup era better.

I can't stand Ace's voice (except on Shock Me). But he wrote some good songs that Gene sung actually in the early days (Parasite, Cold Gin, etc). As I said, I think Gene has LOTS of great songs like Unholy, Not For The Innocent, War Machine, Calling Dr Love, Parasite, Cold Gin, Hell Or High Water, Dance All Over Your Face, Domino, A World Without Heroes, Christine Sixteen, Goin Blind, etc etc... but he also wrote ALOT of really terrible songs and also quite alot of the songs he wrote (particular during their hair metal era) would've sounded better with Paul singing because he is by far the best vocalist in the band, and a very underrated rock vocalist all round in my opinion as he doesn't get the respect as a singer that he deserves. Paul's songs on the other hand were far more consistent. How many bad songs were there that Paul wrote/sung? Almost none in Kiss' entire career!!!

I think the solo albums were also a test of their talent as writers. Gene's album was pretty poor, and Peter's totally sucked. Ace had good songs as he is a solid writer and creative guitarist, but his voice let some of the songs down. Paul's solo album was great from start to finish and one of my fave makeup-era Kiss albums easily. Great songs, great hooks, awesome vocals.

This is the great thing about Kiss though I think, there's been so much variety with them that everybody has different favourite eras, singers, members, albums, songs, etc. Whereas with most bands there is usually a general concensus on which albums are the best & worst. Personally, I'm a big Paul Stanley fan which I think is the key factor in what my favourite songs, albums and era of the band are because in the '80s Paul was really running the show by himself and was driving the band. And the great thing is that if you ask 10 Kiss fans what their favourite member, album, and era is you would get all different answers!

By the way if I had to choose between Kiss' guitarists (the main 3)... you could judge based on each of their solo careers to see how good they are at writing on their own.
Ace Frehley - his solo stuff is boring I think, and he had lots of co-writers (including the great Desmond Child) to help him! But perfectly suited to Kiss in the '70s and had an amazing chemistry & magic with them. Great at writing riffs and catchy solos too.
Vinnie Vincent - easily the best writer. He wrote the 2 Invasion albums almost entirely on his own and the material smokes. Blows away 99% of other hair metal bands I think and hair metal is my fave music! The debut is better than any Kiss record too.
Bruce Kulick - decent writer but nowhere near as good as Vinnie, but a killer guitarist and totally underrated. The best guitarist in Kiss I think coz Vinnie's style didn't suit them as well!

I think Ace & Bruce were both perfectly suited to Kiss. Ace in the '70s but definitely had to go in the '80s coz as Paul said "he didn't blossom" and couldn't keep up with the '80s style of guitar. Bruce was the perfect man to fill his shoes throughout the non-makeup era. Vinnie didn't have a place in Kiss because he needed more freedom and couldn't be a "yes man" to Gene & Paul but had a great writing chemistry with them.

Sorry for the long post! I get excited talking about Kiss, they're my all time favourite band! I live and breathe Kiss! It's cool to have somewhere to get all this stuff out and discuss it!