dbfs levels for rhythm guitar

[Nitsuj]

What kind of levels do the pro audio engineers shoot for when tracking a mono distorted rhythm guitar track? So much so that it allows headroom left for drums, bass and the compressor in the master bus.

Most interface manufacturers suggest tracking the hottest possible signal at 0db, but from what I read, that's way too hot and should go for -25 dbfs to -18dbfs instead. Is there a minimum db level for metal guitars to sound really good?

 

[migreeni]

I try to track at -3db peak. Then again I'm not sure that I'm doing it right No problems there though. Guitars sound nice and loud.

 

[greyskull]

-6

 

[Metaltastic]

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you just get more headroom in the master bus by turning down all the faders? It seems logical from the concept of gain staging that you shouldn't have to worry about how hot your track is by just turning it down...

 

[AdamWathan]

He's talking about tracking, not levels to the master during mixing... I think he just wants to know what the safest zone to track in is level wise to minimize noise and avoid clipping...

I think -3db is fine, I normally try to track as hot as I can go without clipping while still leaving a bit of room just in case....

 

[colonel kurtz]

it'll depend on the calibration of your converters, but most have 0dbvu between -18 and -12dbfs

my converters put 0dbvu around -16dbfs, and i'll usually track so that the peaks hit around 0dbvu...maybe a few db above that, depending on the preamp

that would put hottest the peaks at around -12 at the very most, with the RMS value probably somewhere around -20

 

[Metaltastic]

He's talking about tracking, not levels to the master during mixing... I think he just wants to know what the safest zone to track in is level wise to minimize noise and avoid clipping...

What kind of levels do the pro audio engineers shoot for when tracking a mono distorted rhythm guitar track? So much so that it allows headroom left for drums, bass and the compressor in the master bus.

 

[colonel kurtz]

quick question for those who record close to 0dbfs: how do you keep your preamp from clipping/distorting when you track that hot?

 

[AdamWathan]

Touche!

 

[AdamWathan]

quick question for those who record close to 0dbfs: how do you keep your preamp from clipping/distorting when you track that hot?

Call me a complete idiot but I always thought the level that was showing as my input volume in my DAW was directly related to the signal coming from my mic pre's... Is it possible to be clipping your interface and have the input levels look perfectly fine in your DAW...? I always keep the meters on my Onyx out of the red zone when tracking, but that seems directly linked to the levels I see in Reaper... If the interface clips then I can see it in Reaper...

 

[colonel kurtz]

eh...i guess as long as there's no clipping on the front end, then all is good

all i know is that with my onyx 1640, the preamps clip wayyyy before 0dbfs...probably more like -8 or so

i wish i had a noise generator of some sort around, so that i could test exactly what my converters are calibrated to, but oh well. i just set the levels so that they stay out of the red on the preamps, and it's worked well for me so far.

 

[Keiffer]

eh...i guess as long as there's no clipping on the front end, then all is good

all i know is that with my onyx 1640, the preamps clip wayyyy before 0dbfs...probably more like -8 or so

this does not seem correct. do your converters have selectable inputs or preamps have selectable outputs?

-10dBv
+4dBu

 

[scorpio01169]

quick question for those who record close to 0dbfs: how do you keep your preamp from clipping/distorting when you track that hot?

first of all...you should be first setting the levels for your interface...then set the levels for your input in your daw....for me what works best in setting the levels for the input of the daw....leave the fader at unity or 0db...bring your gain all the way down. play whatever it is you're recording then bring your gain up till bout -3.

 

[AdamWathan]

Great read about this topic...
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=204358

 

["Evil" Aidy]

I have related questions which have been bugging me for awhile - I've searched but haven't quite found anything to help as yet...

My first question is, generally speaking when you have finished recording all your individual tracks (i.e. drums, guitars, bass n vocals), whilst you are in the mixing stage, should you allow any of your tracks to peak OVER 0dbs?

Or should EVERYTHING be under 0dbs?

I tend to boost everything so my mixes sound generally loud (without taking any notice of the peak level - "as long as it sounds ok" kinda approach) or should the whole loudness issue be left until the mastering stage? (and then use compression n stuff on the whole mix i.e. Daunt's extreme master buss compression guide and then clippers n that afterwards)

Secondly, I noticed that when I tracked a Rhythm guitar recently (I used an amp sim and bounced to audio in Cubase SX) it was peaking at around -4dbs whilst panned to the center then when I panned all the way to the right it was now showing a peak of -0.8dbs!

Why is that?

 

[Force666]

[quote="Evil" Aidy;7066917]I have related questions which have been bugging me for awhile - I've searched but haven't quite found anything to help as yet...

My first question is, generally speaking when you have finished recording all your individual tracks (i.e. drums, guitars, bass n vocals), whilst you are in the mixing stage, should you allow any of your tracks to peak OVER 0dbs?[/quote]

NEVER

Or should EVERYTHING be under 0dbs?

Most definitly.

I tend to boost everything so my mixes sound generally loud (without taking any notice of the peak level - "as long as it sounds ok" kinda approach) or should the whole loudness issue be left until the mastering stage? (and then use compression n stuff on the whole mix i.e. Daunt's extreme master buss compression guide and then clippers n that afterwards)

Yes, to the latter.

Secondly, I noticed that when I tracked a Rhythm guitar recently (I used an amp sim and bounced to audio in Cubase SX) it was peaking at around -4dbs whilst panned to the center then when I panned all the way to the right it was now showing a peak of -0.8dbs!

Why is that?

That would be due to the "Pan Law", yours is probably set at -3.

 

[colonel kurtz]

first of all...you should be first setting the levels for your interface...then set the levels for your input in your daw....for me what works best in setting the levels for the input of the daw....leave the fader at unity or 0db...bring your gain all the way down. play whatever it is you're recording then bring your gain up till bout -3.

there is no level to set for the interface

with the 1640, the converters are in the card that is installed in the back of the mixer, and there is +4/-10 switch, or individual levels to set or calibrate

the process i use for tracking is about as simple as it gets: plug something into a mixer input, assign the input to the DAW track, set the level on the preamp so that it doesn't clip, then hit record. it's the same thing when using outboard pres, except that they get plugged into the line in on the onyx, with the gain set to unity.

 

[scorpio01169]

there is no level to set for the interface

with the 1640, the converters are in the card that is installed in the back of the mixer, and there is +4/-10 switch, or individual levels to set or calibrate

the process i use for tracking is about as simple as it gets: plug something into a mixer input, assign the input to the DAW track, set the level on the preamp so that it doesn't clip, then hit record. it's the same thing when using outboard pres, except that they get plugged into the line in on the onyx, with the gain set to unity.

you're right...and i thought about that after i posted my comment.....i did forget to mention if you have an interface like the delta 1010 then you will set your levels on your preamp first....that is if you aren't using templates that have your pre's set with your daws input levels.

 

["Evil" Aidy]

NEVER

Most definitly.

Thanks for your help with that question - I just had a fiddle with a recent mix I did and it's starting to make more sense now taking this approach!

Does EVERYTHING include group channel/busses too? (dumb question?)

P.S. I'm using a firepod to record stuff, so I always ensure that the actual preamp/inputs are not clipping (LEDs blinking) whilst recording anything. Presumably this would be the correct approach for any direct recording interface?

Cheers

 

[Force666]

[quote="Evil" Aidy;7068432]Thanks for your help with that question - I just had a fiddle with a recent mix I did and it's starting to make more sense now taking this approach!

Does EVERYTHING include group channel/busses too? (dumb question?)

P.S. I'm using a firepod to record stuff, so I always ensure that the actual preamp/inputs are not clipping (LEDs blinking) whilst recording anything. Presumably this would be the correct approach for any direct recording interface?

Cheers[/quote]


You never want any digital signal to go over 0DBFS, it is instant clipping (and not the pleasant analog type). So avoid that at all costs.