Do you think about the lowest fundamental note?

[Parka Dez]

It just occured to me, when I was recording a track yesterday that I generally cut of the frequencies above the lowest fundamental. The low A we use on a bass is 27.5hz. Now I know this much lower then most system can reproduce, but Im usually cutting off from around 40hz.

Just for reference the low E on a guitar is around 82hz, and I would generally hi-pass guitars around that frequency...when playing in lower tunings.

The reason it became apparent was the A# and B on the lowest bass string has more bass in them then the lowest A. I have compressed the crap out of the bass track, and it sounds a little more even, but that low A still sounds a bit hollow.

Would you say a thicker string would help? It is pretty thick as it is, or is it simply the speakers not being able to reproduce this sound?

 

[egan.]

It's worth being aware of but ultimately sounds good: is good. The problem with all sub frequency information is that very few systems produce it and even fewer reproduce it accurately.

 

[ze kink]

Nah, I just tweak until it sounds good. Especially with bass I don't really care if the lowest notes are properly reproduced or not. Besides, it's not like the hipass filter kills everything below the frequency you set it to. I actually often check out different db/oct settings while hipassing bass tracks or kick tracks.

The uneven bass might be because of string gauge too, but could also be the scale lenght that's doing it. Is it a 34" scale or a 35" scale?

 

[BLUElightCory]

It's most likely just because the system has to work much harder to reproduce the low frequency, as you said.

 

[Harry Hughes]

You don't need anything below 40Hz in rock or metal really. Maybe 35Hz, but that's about the lower limit really.
The average home listening system generally probably wont have a low driver with a size much bigger than 6.5 inches anyway (which is also around the same size as many 2 way studio monitors), so most people aren't even going to be really hearing a lot below 60Hz anyway.
And think about it.......how many bands are using 7 string guitars with a low B note? It has a fundamental of 61.74 Hz (approx), but yet it's common practice to high pass guitars at 100Hz, and many guys go as high as 120Hz.
Take it a step further and you have Meshuggah with an F with a fundamental frequency of 43.65 Hz (approx) but yet I still imagine it's all high passed at around 100Hz, because really when you're playing around with those low strings, the harmonic overtones are king, but not so much the fundamental frequency.

 

[ahjteam]

You don't need anything below 40Hz in rock or metal really. Maybe 35Hz, but that's about the lower limit really.
The average home listening system generally probably wont have a low driver with a size much bigger than 6.5 inches anyway (which is also around the same size as many 2 way studio monitors), so most people aren't even going to be really hearing a lot below 60Hz anyway.
And think about it.......how many bands are using 7 string guitars with a low B note? It has a fundamental of 61.74 Hz (approx), but yet it's common practice to high pass guitars at 100Hz, and many guys go as high as 120Hz.
Take it a step further and you have Meshuggah with an F with a fundamental frequency of 43.65 Hz (approx) but yet I still imagine it's all high passed at around 100Hz, because really when you're playing around with those low strings, the harmonic overtones are king, but not so much the fundamental frequency.

My hifi-speakers that were advertised to play from 30hz(!) to 55khz(!!). I once tried with a tone generator blasting at maximum volume and even with their 6" woofer I think the first frequency that they played back was 61hz. They clearly had some sort of highpass filter in them. My Genelecs with 5" woofers do play down to 38hz, but with clear level loss. After 47hz the soundlevel clearly evens out.

 

[plague_rider]

I like playing with the 35-40Hz for samples and stuff, just from listening to SYL or the intro to No Compromise by the Haunted or Hold back the day by Devildriver

otherwise, i work with how it sounds... on bass, concentrate on where you want it to be most present frequency-wise... same with downtuned guitars

 

[abt]

This post is interesting. I've been wondering if we're in danger of, if we haven't already, gone too far with the low tuning thing.

Don't get me wrong I like Meshuggah, but I don't like their gutiar sound. To me it sounds exactly like what you are talking about. It sounds like your not hearing the fundamental frequency any more, only the upper partials. The fundamental is where the balls are.

I've recently started tuning to drop C (up from drop B) where the C is around 65Hz and I think it sounds better. I've also been thinking that we high pass them anyway maybe its not worth all the hassel of such heavy strings etc, we have bass guitars for a reason, perhaps we should let them do the work.

Sorry to hijack your thread, to answer your question IMO I think heavier gauge strings do help mainly because the added tension creates stronger upper partial frequencies. If your strings are floppy then that's the first part to go.

I used to play 10-52 strings that were much easier to play. I miss them in a lot of ways.

 

[plague_rider]

I think in regards to losing the fundamental frequency, it depends the tone you're using and the high-pass your putting on there, cause there are frequencies you can let through which will let the frequency ring through clearer...

obviously this rings true for all tunings, but is more important for lower tunings...

personally i gotta love the Meshuggah tone, best example being Bleed, you can hear the fundamentals there...

 

[Harry Hughes]

This post is interesting. I've been wondering if we're in danger of, if we haven't already, gone too far with the low tuning thing.

Don't get me wrong I like Meshuggah, but I don't like their gutiar sound. To me it sounds exactly like what you are talking about. It sounds like your not hearing the fundamental frequency any more, only the upper partials. The fundamental is where the balls are.

I've recently started tuning to drop C (up from drop B) where the C is around 65Hz and I think it sounds better. I've also been thinking that we high pass them anyway maybe its not worth all the hassel of such heavy strings etc, we have bass guitars for a reason, perhaps we should let them do the work.

Sorry to hijack your thread, to answer your question IMO I think heavier gauge strings do help mainly because the added tension creates stronger upper partial frequencies. If your strings are floppy then that's the first part to go.

I used to play 10-52 strings that were much easier to play. I miss them in a lot of ways.

Depends what crowd you talk to I guess.
Go to the "djent" crowd and you've got guys going lower than Meshuggah and they'd say Meshuggah aren't going too low.
Me personally, when I played 6 string guitars, I either used E standard or drop D at the most, I was never into the whole tuning down thing.
Yes I do play a 7 string nowadays (so I could keep the high notes for soloing too), but I just keep it at B standard.
Sure, 8 strings are cool, but fuckers have to stop doing the same shit Meshuggah do and do something else with an 8 string, or just go back to playing 6 or 7 string guitars at a reasonable tuning, because things are just getting out of hand with everyone wanting to be the next hero of "djent" with their super "brootalz" E below E standard note for their lowest string.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

My hifi-speakers that were advertised to play from 30hz(!) to 55khz(!!).

That's nothing - my headphones apparently go down to 5Hz. Every time I use them I'm scared I might evacuate my bowels, or that my head might explode or something.

Steve

 

[mephisto_loh]

Some times if you have a lower tone there are some tricks to make it audible even the fundamental can't be reproduced.
I use the waves Rbass plug-in that generates harmonics of a certain fundamental frequency so the ear reconstructs the fundamental frequency by listening the harmonics. It's a very useful tool to emphasize lower frequencies that can't be played in non hi-fi systems.

 

[MF_Kitten]

considering Meshuggah actually tune the bass UP a seminote, i´m pretty sure you´re hearing more fundamentals in their mix than in most metal.

i think fundamentals have no real importance or value over other parts of the frequency. there are way more frequencies in a bass that are important, and we identify the pitch of a note by listening to the frequency spectrum as a whole, not by listening to the fundamentals. i´d say the most important areas in a bass tone is the bass (not sub-lows) area and the low-mids area. the sub-lows are a nice addition, since it adds balls and solidity to the mix, but they aren´t as musically important.

then it´s important (imo) to blend the guitar tone and bass tone together so they "continue" eachother and work together.

so yeah, as others said, don´t think too much about the science and technicalities. if it sounds good, then it is good.