Drum Sound

[Clintus]

Hi Andy,

You've engineered/produced some of the finest sounding metal albums of all time. I have a question(s) for you regarding drum sound.

How do you like to approach the drums? Are triggers truly necessary to acheive that tasty, punchy bass drum sound?

Thanks,
Clint

 

[Andy Sneap]

I find with the heavier stuff it is....if you want to hear it.

I'd love to do an album where it was more straight dorward Rock stuff so I could get away with using just the natural kit.

 

[The Wanderer]

It's possible to get good natural drum sounds on heavier stuff, aint it? The new cephalic carnage is all natural drums and they sound good, esp the kick drum. Is it your call or do you let the drummer have a say in it?

 

[Andy Sneap]

its my call

 

[Clintus]

I find with the heavier stuff it is....if you want to hear it.

I'd love to do an album where it was more straight dorward Rock stuff so I could get away with using just the natural kit.

Thanks for replying!

Do you find this to be true for the toms and snare as well, or do you just mic/EQ/effect them?

 

[Fyhed]

If you do not have triggers on the bass drum(s) you can use an oscillator to create a more punchy sound. I think you use a side chain for the bass drum and apply a gate to the oscialltor.
The kick drum then feeds the side chain and opens the gate. Of course you need a descent desk to do this.

 

[jeronimo]

So Andy, do you use triggers on ALL drums? toms, floor toms, snare, kick... what kind of samples do you use? Anything special?

 

[Fyhed]

Triggering drums on albums sucks in my opinion. Why take away the natural depth of an acoustic bass drum sound. But if the drummer isnt up to it then I suppose quantising in a sequencer is an easy way out for him. For example the opeth record is great as far as production but the triggered bass drum sound really spoils the kit sound for me personally. And Martin Lopez cant pull off those ultra fast doubles live either.

 

[Andy Sneap]

there was no natural sound on the opeth album when I got it to mix, though if you want to hear every hit it really is the only way to do it, especially with real fast stuff because the hits vary so much

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

I think the Opeth album sounds great, esp the drums. To be honest, at first I was suprised they would go with such a death metal sound. But you know, it really works. And the whole CD has a big Voivod influence to my ears, and it sounds like Andy picked up on that, and put it into the mix too. The way there is some slight chaos (okay with Voivod there was a lot of chaos!) and then it whips around to be very tight. Its something different for Opeth, both musically and engineering wise.

Did you record the samples yourself? Did you lift them out of the session? Are they the same kit that was tracked?

 

[The December Flower]

Hey, on my recorder teh oscillator is combined with a noise generator that generates noises such as white noise, pink noise and sin wave. (I have a Roland VS2480) But what tha heck is this good for at all, and how can I use it to get more punchy Kick drum sound!?!?

 

[Fyhed]

Hey, on my recorder teh oscillator is combined with a noise generator that generates noises such as white noise, pink noise and sin wave. (I have a Roland VS2480) But what tha heck is this good for at all, and how can I use it to get more punchy Kick drum sound!?!?

Well the "oscillator trick" can be achieved in amany different ways depending on what desk you use, what mode you are in(record, mixdown) On in line consoles you have a monitor path and a channel path. In mixdown status your previously recorded material will come back into your channel path most of the time. What equipment have you got because you need a pretty decent console to be able to do the kick drum trick. Its quite a simple proceedure, the oscillator is basically assigned in to a gate and you have to then send the kick drum to the side chain of the gate(this triggers the gate, opening and closing it) The oscillator only sounds when the bass drum is played. You have to also make sure you select a low enough frequency eg. 40Hz. This will enable the bass drum to sound like it has sub bass on it.

 

[Andy Sneap]

you'll be telling them to use white noise under the snare with a gate next, very eighties (nothing wrong with the eighties mind). Dont forget the speaker on the snare face down, micing the bottom , tried all those tricks, never sounded great to me.

The oscillator thing can help out, but it doesn't help the kick cut through a wall of gtrs, tho you have to be careful not to over do the sample, maybe dull it a little and drop the level during real fast moments, especially if the drummer bluffs his way through the fast bits.

 

[Andy Sneap]

you'll be telling them to use white noise under the snare with a gate next, very eighties (nothing wrong with the eighties mind). Dont forget the speaker on the snare face down, micing the bottom , tried all those tricks, never sounded great to me.

The oscillator thing can help out, but it doesn't help the kick cut through a wall of gtrs, tho you have to be careful not to over do the sample, maybe dull it a little and drop the level during real fast moments, especially if the drummer bluffs his way through the fast bits.