Drum Tracking Question

[Studdy]

Please try to hear me out on this question.

I used to track drums in nuendo. I liked it because nuendo played overlapping regions. What I mean is I can just punch in the drummer whenever and the underlying audio would play. Why this is important is because I like to track drums parts by parts. Lets say i have the drummer play a verse and let the cymbals ring out at the end. When i record the next part over top the cymbal hit will still be heard behind the new region. It made it much easier without the cymbals cutting off. I am so familiar with pro tools now, so i don't want a crash course on playlists or anything like that. I also know that i could "make it work" or splice them together when a cymbal isnt crucial. I just prefered this way. I want to know the best method to accomplish what i was doing in nuendo. Here is what I've come up with so far and it works but is to much hassle.

Let's say im tracking 8 tracks of drums. What i do is duplicate so i have this.

BD
Snare
Tom1
Tom2
Tom3
OH L
OH R
Hats
Room

BD
Snare
Tom1
Tom2
Tom3
OH L
OH R
Hats
Room

I arm the first section and record. Then i unarm and arm the bottom section for the next part, now when i print the tracks together they overlap. This cannot be accomplished with playlists because the overlapping audio is cutoff.

I hope this question makes perfect sense. If there is a faster work around for tracking drums please let me know.

Thanks \m/\m/

Best Forum on Earth!

 

[DavePiatek]

Why don't you just have the drummer play a bar or two before the section you're trying to punch? That way, you'll have the proper cymbal wash and you can splice the tracks on a kick or snare hit and it'll be impossible to tell. No playlist trickery needed.

 

[K Odell]

^that

 

[Studdy]

This is one of the things i tried. I just really liked the nuendo method of not cutting out the audio region that is behind. Dave do you track drums in playlist mode then, and just come in early on tracking the next part? Then what you find a spot where the "splice" is least noticeable. I cant believe no one else feels this way. Why would i want to crossfade a cymbal when i could have just let it ring naturally?

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

You dont, you punch in just before thebassdrum/cymbal hit

 

[bryan_kilco]

You dont, you punch in just before thebassdrum/cymbal hit

Yep. Play a measure or 2 before you want the punch in and have the drummer play to that. I learned the hard way with drums. "Eh, that part is ok, I can edit that later." Only to find out that there was a cymbal cutting off that could not be fixed.

 

[Studdy]

This makes no sense. The drummer is always hitting cymbals. A hi hat, a ride, a ringing cymbal, obviously none of this applies if the drummer is only hitting drums.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

Just duplicate the cymbal tracks and punch in a few measures behind and consolidate after you're done? Or have some aux channel play back in the drummers cans?

 

[Revson]

At the end of the session, take cymbal samples like you would take kick/snare/tom samples. Then when you hear a cymbal cut off due to a new region you can copy and paste the appropriate cymbal sound and blend it in so the cut is less noticeable.

 

[Studdy]

Thanks for the replies but i know all the tricks to make it work. I just thought I was missing some trick or workflow method.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Please try to hear me out on this question.

I used to track drums in nuendo. I liked it because nuendo played overlapping regions. What I mean is I can just punch in the drummer whenever and the underlying audio would play. Why this is important is because I like to track drums parts by parts. Lets say i have the drummer play a verse and let the cymbals ring out at the end. When i record the next part over top the cymbal hit will still be heard behind the new region. It made it much easier without the cymbals cutting off. I am so familiar with pro tools now, so i don't want a crash course on playlists or anything like that. I also know that i could "make it work" or splice them together when a cymbal isnt crucial. I just prefered this way. I want to know the best method to accomplish what i was doing in nuendo. Here is what I've come up with so far and it works but is to much hassle.

Let's say im tracking 8 tracks of drums. What i do is duplicate so i have this.

BD
Snare
Tom1
Tom2
Tom3
OH L
OH R
Hats
Room

BD
Snare
Tom1
Tom2
Tom3
OH L
OH R
Hats
Room

I arm the first section and record. Then i unarm and arm the bottom section for the next part, now when i print the tracks together they overlap. This cannot be accomplished with playlists because the overlapping audio is cutoff.

I hope this question makes perfect sense. If there is a faster work around for tracking drums please let me know.

Thanks m/m/

Best Forum on Earth!

I don't see any problem with this method as long as you've got the resources and workflow to pull it off efficiently. It's definitely a better method than using cymbal samples to fix any weird cut-offs. I take it you're editing the transitions from section to section to make everything flow naturally...

As a possible alternative, I use Pro Tools, and in PT you can use quick-punch mode for this - I'm not sure if there's an equivalent in Nuendo or not. Basically, in quick-punch mode PT is always recording, so if you play back the track, punch in, punch out, and then stop playback, PT will actually record from the time playback starts to the time it ends. Everything outside of the actual punch is kept in the background - so if the punch isn't quite right (cymbals get cut off, etc.) you can just drag the start/end region boundaries to adjust it, since PT already recorded the extra audio in the back ground. It's my personally preferred method but that doesn't mean it's any better or worse than what other people are doing.

 

[Studdy]

Thank you so much bro, this is definitely worth a try.

 

[bryan_kilco]

I don't see any problem with this method as long as you've got the resources and workflow to pull it off efficiently. It's definitely a better method than using cymbal samples to fix any weird cut-offs. I take it you're editing the transitions from section to section to make everything flow naturally...

As a possible alternative, I use Pro Tools, and in PT you can use quick-punch mode for this - I'm not sure if there's an equivalent in Nuendo or not. Basically, in quick-punch mode PT is always recording, so if you play back the track, punch in, punch out, and then stop playback, PT will actually record from the time playback starts to the time it ends. Everything outside of the actual punch is kept in the background - so if the punch isn't quite right (cymbals get cut off, etc.) you can just drag the start/end region boundaries to adjust it, since PT already recorded the extra audio in the back ground. It's my personally preferred method but that doesn't mean it's any better or worse than what other people are doing.

This is also an option in Reaper. It works great!

Studdy - it really won't matter if the drummer is always hitting a cymbal. Unless the drummer is VERY bad, you should be able to punch in and move your fades around to get it to work out without hearing a noticeable cut.

 

[Studdy]

Sorry I don't get what you mean. Im not arguing the fact that you can make it sound undetectable.

If i want to track the verse seperate from the chorus I would want the cymbals from the verse end to ring into the chorus. This is not possible in protools without coming in early or doing one of the other methods mentioned here. Basically I guess i'm saying that I would love if protools had a button:

PLAY UNDERLYING REGIONS IN TRACK

In most cases this would be annoying, but great for tracking comp drums

\m/\m/

 

[mva801]

Dude. Just have the drummer play two bars before the start of the chorus, and punch them in like normal. Every musician since the beginning of time has punched in this way. I would prefer pro tools NEVER play underlying regions. In a busy session this could get extremely annoying. Cory explained how it works. just having the drummer play 5 seconds earlier and sliding an edit around seems easier than having an extra 8 tracks to contend with.

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

It doesn't sound like you are using REAPER, but in REAPER you can enable the option "show overlapping media items in lanes" which allows audio regions to overlap each other and still be heard. I have never thought to work this way though, seems like more trouble than it's worth for my needs.

 

[Studdy]

I understand that, I just preferred the other method. I don't get why some can't see the benefit to what I'm suggesting. I don't really like the idea of having to punch in at a certain time and shit. I just like stop click back a few bars and hit record and have the drummer hear his previous take. If i hit record on the same track as the last take in pro tools the drummer won't hear it. I know I can use quick punch or all the other methods mentioned , but it's just not the same. I know this is minor but its just how i got used to working and really miss it.

Thanks for all the suggestions and input.

 

[Studdy]

I don't see any problem with this method as long as you've got the resources and workflow to pull it off efficiently. It's definitely a better method than using cymbal samples to fix any weird cut-offs. I take it you're editing the transitions from section to section to make everything flow naturally...

Exactly man, I use a long fade on the previous take and a quick fade in, that way a get absolutely true cymbal fades. I think i will stick with my method, it makes the most sense to me.

 

[Studdy]

It doesn't sound like you are using REAPER, but in REAPER you can enable the option "show overlapping media items in lanes" which allows audio regions to overlap each other and still be heard. I have never thought to work this way though, seems like more trouble than it's worth for my needs.

If this is the case, Pro Tools should do the same thing.

 

[mva801]

I don't really like the idea of having to punch in at a certain time and shit.

What? How do you punch in guitars/ vocal lines? It's the same thing. You push one button. The ONLY difference is, the drummer would play along with the last bar or so to retain the cymbal overflow. The way you wanna do it sounds like a giant pain in the ass. If you punch, you work exactly the same way, but only have to worry about one set of drum tracks.

All you do is say here we go. PLAY ALONG. Hit Space. Then hit the 3 button to punch in. Try it dude.