Drums..compression ratios?

[BrettT]

So I've been really working on my drum mixing here lately. I'm starting from scratch with totally raw samples and trying to sculpt them from the ground up. Much more difficult than just replacing with Slate samples, but I'm learning a shitton. It's really opened my ears as to how compression can be used to sculpt the sound and not just be used to flatten everything.

I'm curious as to what ratio settings people tend to use on individual drums and the reasoning behind it? Is it better to use a high ratio and basically limit the drums, or is using a low threshold with a smaller ratio better? Or maybe the better question is: When do limit??

 

[TheDriller]

I'm generally a low-ratio kind of guy, though i tend to end up with a lot of seperate instances of compression going on before the signal finally reaches the masterbus.

might be a good idea to take a short section of recorded drums, and do a few mixes, each with a different approach.
take notes during each mix and compare the whole lot at the end to figure out whats getting the best results.

 

[BrettT]

I'm generally a low-ratio kind of guy, though i tend to end up with a lot of seperate instances of compression going on before the signal finally reaches the masterbus.

might be a good idea to take a short section of recorded drums, and do a few mixes, each with a different approach.
take notes during each mix and compare the whole lot at the end to figure out whats getting the best results.

I've mainly been using my ears, and discovered that I was pretty much brickwalling the shit out of everything. Doesn't seem right, but I was really having trouble hearing the difference between low ratios/low threshold and high ratios/high threshold. I'm sure ear fatigue had a lot to with it, though.

 

[slo77y]

4:1

 

[greyskull]

tends be 4:1 as thats what an 1176 does.
sometimes higher ratio but way less G.R gets the job done though.

 

[TheDriller]

I've mainly been using my ears, and discovered that I was pretty much brickwalling the shit out of everything. Doesn't seem right, but I was really having trouble hearing the difference between low ratios/low threshold and high ratios/high threshold. I'm sure ear fatigue had a lot to with it, though.

Just a thought, it may be worth re-evaluating your attack/release settings to see if anything improves, especially if you are compressing in stages.

 

[timislegend]

it's very simple actually:

ratio works as a "translator" and determines the i/o ratio for signal levels above the threshold.

example:

a 2:1 ratio instantiates that a signal level peaking the threshold by 2 dB will output the compressor 1 dB above the threshold.

so... for every 2db going in the compressor, 1db will go out the compressor.

a compressor just lowers the overall dynamic range of a signal.

 

[BrettT]

it's very simple actually:

ratio works as a "translator" and determines the i/o ratio for signal levels above the threshold.

example:

a 2:1 ratio instantiates that a signal level peaking the threshold by 2 dB will output the compressor 1 dB above the threshold.

so... for every 2db going in the compressor, 1db will go out the compressor.

a compressor just lowers the overall dynamic range of a signal.

I'm aware of what the ratio values mean...was just curious as to people's preferences. Revisited my project last night with fresh ears and definitely found that 4:1 to 8:1 ratios with considerable gain reduction sounds better than really high ratios with higher thresholds. I did end up throwing a limiter after the compressor on snare and kick to tame the peaks a bit.

 

[Ermz]

Yeah I'm usually doing 4:1 or 6:1 on drums. Higher on parallel or annihilated room tracks.

 

[tempe]

It honestly depends on the material, although I generally use a higher ratio on a kick than snare, simply because I find when dealing with raw kicks I need to squeeze them a little harder to get the consistency I want out of it. I don't think I've gone harder than 8:1 though. I also heard that once you go above 10:1 your technically limiting the signal. I got told that at SAE so you never know how accurate that is!

 

[timislegend]

I'm curious as to what ratio settings people tend to use on individual drums and the reasoning behind it?

sorry mate! ...i misunderstood the question.

 

[BrettT]

It honestly depends on the material, although I generally use a higher ratio on a kick than snare, simply because I find when dealing with raw kicks I need to squeeze them a little harder to get the consistency I want out of it. I don't think I've gone harder than 8:1 though.

I noticed the same last night. I found that 8:1 worked better on the particular kick I was using. Helped bring out the body of the kick a bit more. 4:1 sounded great on snare and toms.

 

[crillemannen]

4:1 with SSL compressor. about 3-1ms attack 3-6ms release and about 4-8db of GR + parallel compression of course

 

[DanLights]

On kick also go heavy, from 6:1 to 8:1, and if it's 6 then the threshold is lower so it can squash it more. On everything else I start at 4:1 and tweak from there, depends on a lot of things

I'm more interested in how you guys use the attack and release settings in a tone-shaping/creative way, I still don't seem to grasp it completely

 

[BLUElightCory]

I'm more interested in how you guys use the attack and release settings in a tone-shaping/creative way, I still don't seem to grasp it completely

As far as the attack time goes, simply use a faster attack for a smoother sound with less emphasis on the peaks (useful for pushing drums "back" in a mix) and use a slower attack time for more punch (useful for a more up-front sound).

Release times should be set by ear but generally I prefer a fast release for most drum sounds and other fast/transient material - if the release is too long the compressor might not disengage (after the initial drum hit) in time to let the transients in successive drum hits pass.

The "knee" of the compressor comes into play in the tone-shaping aspect of things too, as it affects the behavior of how the compressor acts on the signal - a soft-knee compressor is generally a bit smoother, more natural, and less aggressive sounding, while a hard-knee compressor is generally more aggressive and distinct - keep that in mind if you're using a compressor with a "knee" control.

 

[ze kink]

How about staging it with using both a fast attack/fast attack compressor and a slow attack/slow release compressor? I've had good results with two compressors with a ~3:1 ratio going like that.

 

[BrettT]

As far as the attack time goes, simply use a faster attack for a smoother sound with less emphasis on the peaks (useful for pushing drums "back" in a mix) and use a slower attack time for more punch (useful for a more up-front sound).

This. I start with the fastest attack time, and raise it until I get the desired amount of punch from the initial drum hit coming through.

 

[Ermz]

I mostly use fixed-attack comps on drums. Started with the SSL channel, which basically has a 'slow attack' that is program-dependent, now moved onto the DBX 160VU which has preset 'drum-friendly' curves. The Distressor is the exception, where the sweet spot for punch is usually between 7 and 8 on the attack.

But the attack is essentially a 'thickness' or 'forwardness' control. You can move stuff back or forward with it, depending on how you want it seated in the mix.

You can then further complicate the issue by staging slow attack comps with fast attack comps or limiters.

 

[Sonic75]

Usually I go with 4:1 with C2 and 4:1 or 6:1 on the Distressor, attack quite or totally open, release depends on the song.
If I have problem with some peak I go with automation.
The ratio values are usually higher on room mics and parallel comp.

 

[Scottxx]

Sorry for my ignorance, do you use the SSL channel that has compression or SSL G Comp ? Just can't figure well how to set parallel compression too. I know what it is and I read some guides, just is not easy to me to take it in practice.