East vs. West

[Arrakis]

Eh they're not completely awful just suffer the same fate as a lot of ambitious bands: the fault of cramming too many ideas into one album. I couldn't listen to Mabool more than once, I was just too put off at the flowery-ness and the unsuccessful melding of everything.

well let's hope they read these messages so next time around they'll do what you like instead of what they do.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Eh they're not completely awful just suffer the same fate as a lot of ambitious bands: the fault of cramming too many ideas into one album. I couldn't listen to Mabool more than once, I was just too put off at the flowery-ness and the unsuccessful melding of everything.

God forbid having to listen to an album more than once to get something out of it.....^_^

 

[Kenneth R.]

I dunno VVVVV i thought Mabool was pretty well crafted.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Orphaned Land do represent some of what I'm talking about, and Melechesh as well (they're more authentic-sounding, IMO).

Interesting responses. I was actually expecting something from RosesofShadow on the Phillipines, so thanks.

For the question of not having enough western influence from Black Sabbath or Metallica and just originating from the East... I think it will not be that heavy or that agressive, and more use of the non-traditional instruments like guitars but rather their own traditional instruments like "Kawayan", "Yukelele", "Plutang Dahon"... I just wonder if it will be considered Metal at all though...

Yes, this is what I was referring to. What is the Eastern equivalent of heavy, aggressive, dissonant music?

Actually, you mentioned Sepultura. They messed around with Japanese Kodo drumming on Against. Their Roots album is the kind of thing I'm thinking, but they were already influenced by the metal of the 80's and their meeting with Korn explains the distinct sound of that album. Most hate it, I don't, but it's not accurate in the way I'm getting at it. I applaud the effort, but Roots was corrupted by the band's exposition to Western metal.

I was brought up in Singapore but exposed to alot of Western music so it wasn't strange hearing metal.

Ah, I see. I'm glad that you understood what my question meant, though. Cheers!

I was not aware of that. Huh.

Dave Brubeck's Time Out album was revolutionary to Western ears, but the hit "Blue Rondo a la Turk" was just a simple street melody that was picked up and transformed into a jazz classic. The liner notes indicate that much of Turkish music is not constructed in 4/4. It just doesn't sound natural to them. I found that fascinating. My personal investigation of Turkish music has only supported this claim.

I'm of Asian heritage, so I'm familiar with music in 6/8 and 7/8 and 7/4. It just feels that way. I can't describe it. It's tough hearing Indian metal bands struggling with 4/4 third-rate Iron Maiden-based stuff. That's their impression of metal over there. It's that alien. I wonder what would happen if they just played aggressive music naturally. Distorted raja (sp?), for instance.

I thought this thread was going to be about rap.

I noticed that as soon as I posted the thread.

This looks like the kind of topic I could go to town on. I'll give a serious reply tomorrow when I'm all rested and stuff.

I eagerly await it.

Yes. I'll post something later.

Looking forward to it.


actually, this topic idea came about from a discussion Cythraul and I had in a composition thread some time ago. I figured we could use a discussion-filled topic on something more substantial and less inflammatory than National Socialism.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i'm also really interested in hearing what the Eastern equivalent to "metal" is. i'm fascinated by world music.

 

[kmik]

I've heared some Eastern band named As Sahar or something and they had very unusual riffs... sounds very alien, like Demilich (they don't sound like Demilich at all but you get my point)

 

[Episteme]

Orphaned Land do represent some of what I'm talking about, and Melechesh as well (they're more authentic-sounding, IMO).

Interesting responses. I was actually expecting something from RosesofShadow on the Phillipines, so thanks.



Yes, this is what I was referring to. What is the Eastern equivalent of heavy, aggressive, dissonant music?

Actually, you mentioned Sepultura. They messed around with Japanese Kodo drumming on Against. Their Roots album is the kind of thing I'm thinking, but they were already influenced by the metal of the 80's and their meeting with Korn explains the distinct sound of that album. Most hate it, I don't, but it's not accurate in the way I'm getting at it. I applaud the effort, but Roots was corrupted by the band's exposition to Western metal.



Ah, I see. I'm glad that you understood what my question meant, though. Cheers!



Dave Brubeck's Time Out album was revolutionary to Western ears, but the hit "Blue Rondo a la Turk" was just a simple street melody that was picked up and transformed into a jazz classic. The liner notes indicate that much of Turkish music is not constructed in 4/4. It just doesn't sound natural to them. I found that fascinating. My personal investigation of Turkish music has only supported this claim.

I'm of Asian heritage, so I'm familiar with music in 6/8 and 7/8 and 7/4. It just feels that way. I can't describe it. It's tough hearing Indian metal bands struggling with 4/4 third-rate Iron Maiden-based stuff. That's their impression of metal over there. It's that alien. I wonder what would happen if they just played aggressive music naturally. Distorted raja (sp?), for instance.



I noticed that as soon as I posted the thread.



I eagerly await it.



Looking forward to it.


actually, this topic idea came about from a discussion Cythraul and I had in a composition thread some time ago. I figured we could use a discussion-filled topic on something more substantial and less inflammatory than National Socialism.

I enjoy Melechesh and somehow find Middle Eastern melodies by bands like them and Orphaned Land and Indian melodies easier to listen to than alot of Celtic/Folk/Viking bands(it grew onto me eventually).

I also am of Asian heritage, although I am abit of a mongrel being part Arab, Dutch, Chinese, Indian and Malay. During Malay/Muslim weddings there'll be kompangs and gamelans and it's rhythms I've noticed aren't straight 4/4 and usually involves alot of polyrhythms. I'm not sure if you've heard of anklungs(bell like instruments in various sizes that are made from bamboo). But one thing I've noticed with alot of Malay music(since that's what my family's heritage is), is that there is a lack of dissonance or dark melody. I'm not sure how easy it would be to incoporated into metal, but I guess I just have to search for the right bands in the right area of the world or maybe do it by myself.

I love Indian music and want to learn how to play the tabla and the sitar but unfortunately there's no where I can purchase such instruments over here in Perth. Plus it would be hard to get strings for the sitar if I ever do need to change them. My mum has made me gotten used to Indian culture(even though she's not Indian at all) since she always sticks on a Bollywood movie on the TV or plays Indian music in her car.

I've actually come across some friends/people from Singapore and Malaysia who find it hard to play in 4/4 because they're used to hearing polyrhythms and odd time signatures in traditional music. They enjoy metal and want to be in a metal band, but they were atrocious at keeping time(not their fault I guess)...though they always seemed to be listening to the wild technical metal with constant time changes and fucked up rhythms. I also know a couple of friends from India who listen to heavier shit than Iron Maiden.

 

[WNxScythe]

You know this is a really good question... because to our western ears, certain chords or scales or whatever sound "spooky", "happy", "fruity" etc... I play guitar and it's interesting to mess around with that...

It'd be neat to see how something that's supposed to sound "freaky" (take Blut Aus Nord for example... really odd sounding mildly spooky... not like it makes me curl up in the corner or anything though lol) would sound to say... an aborigenee (spelling is totally off I know) from Australia.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Any time signature that's x/8 shouldn't be that hard. It's basically the same as any x/4, but swung. These should sound pretty good, or if you've heard any jazz they should sound right. 5/8 and 7/8 are a little trickier, but not so bad. The intro to Opeth's Deliverance is 7/8 and they use a lot of 6/8 and 9/8. 7/4 seems weird to me. I think Isis uses some of that.

Why has no one mentioned using other traditional western instruments? Have we given up on that? I know ska doesn't exactly make them sound appealing.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Why has no one mentioned using other traditional western instruments? Have we given up on that? I know ska doesn't exactly make them sound appealing.

Ska > You

I enjoy Melechesh and somehow find Middle Eastern melodies by bands like them and Orphaned Land and Indian melodies easier to listen to than alot of Celtic/Folk/Viking bands(it grew onto me eventually).

I also am of Asian heritage, although I am abit of a mongrel being part Arab, Dutch, Chinese, Indian and Malay. During Malay/Muslim weddings there'll be kompangs and gamelans and it's rhythms I've noticed aren't straight 4/4 and usually involves alot of polyrhythms. I'm not sure if you've heard of anklungs(bell like instruments in various sizes that are made from bamboo). But one thing I've noticed with alot of Malay music(since that's what my family's heritage is), is that there is a lack of dissonance or dark melody. I'm not sure how easy it would be to incoporated into metal, but I guess I just have to search for the right bands in the right area of the world or maybe do it by myself.

I love Indian music and want to learn how to play the tabla and the sitar but unfortunately there's no where I can purchase such instruments over here in Perth. Plus it would be hard to get strings for the sitar if I ever do need to change them. My mum has made me gotten used to Indian culture(even though she's not Indian at all) since she always sticks on a Bollywood movie on the TV or plays Indian music in her car.

I've actually come across some friends/people from Singapore and Malaysia who find it hard to play in 4/4 because they're used to hearing polyrhythms and odd time signatures in traditional music. They enjoy metal and want to be in a metal band, but they were atrocious at keeping time(not their fault I guess)...though they always seemed to be listening to the wild technical metal with constant time changes and fucked up rhythms. I also know a couple of friends from India who listen to heavier shit than Iron Maiden.

I also noticed a lack of dissonance. I wonder how they mess with tension/release?

I heard somewhere that Biohazard were really popular in India some time ago.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I don't really like ska. I'm probably not alone on this one.

 

[RosesofShadow]

Yes, this is what I was referring to. What is the Eastern equivalent of heavy, aggressive, dissonant music?

There are tribes in the Philippines that uses their own traditional instruments that sounds really heavy and aggressive. I don't know what is called, but it can be compared to the double bass kick in standard drums plus some kawayan and dahon instruments... I just don't know about the growls and grunts... maybe more related to nature... animals and nature gods perhaps?

Actually, you mentioned Sepultura. They messed around with Japanese Kodo drumming on Against. Their Roots album is the kind of thing I'm thinking, but they were already influenced by the metal of the 80's and their meeting with Korn explains the distinct sound of that album. Most hate it, I don't, but it's not accurate in the way I'm getting at it. I applaud the effort, but Roots was corrupted by the band's exposition to Western metal.

Sepultura falls short on Roots. It's more on the Western Influence side rather than the tribal and Eastern side... I like to see a band that uses these eastern instruments to produce a heavy, aggressive and metal sound... I would like to have that sound in my band... more of a Filipino influence rather than Western...

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Excellent.

 

[RosesofShadow]

Excellent it is. I just heard Subkulture again yesterday... They really sound more like Sepultura roots era and a bit of Soulfly but you can hear the uniqueness of the Filipino sounds there and the right use of tribal instruments. We even played with them live once, and they are really good, you won't think of them as a rip-off...

I'm planning of attending a cultural show here in Manila to refresh my memories on these instruments though...

 

[anonymousnick2001]

They have a site?

 

[RosesofShadow]

Unfortunately, they don't have one... They're just simple Filipino metalheads you can see in the streets of manila...

 

[anonymousnick2001]

*sigh*

Those Filipinos.

 

[RosesofShadow]

Hahaha, yeah, almost all the metal bands here in the Philippines doesn't have any site at all... But I'll try to send you one nick, I'll just PM you.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I'd appreciate it.

Wow, this topic really kind of died before I got as much out of it as I wanted. Where are Cythraul and Barking Pumpkin's responses?

 

[metal devi]

Very interesting thread!! I'm half Indian and I used to play sitar for a short while... Indian classical music is quite complicated but for those who are interested, I can recommed a book ( with 4 cd's) called " The Raga Guide" in which around 60 raga's are discussed, the scale is written down and you can hear a short piece on the cd's.
Anyway, if someone wants more information, you can ask me.

Profanity, your projects sounds very interesting, I'll check it out!