ESP Eclipse vs ESP Viper

[CraigJohnsJr]

Hey all! I'm looking to purchase a new guitar and I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone with experience regarding these two guitars. I tour in a metalcore band, and I was using a PRS Custom 24 for a while, but it doesn't seem to hold up very well in Drop B. I'm now selling it, and looking to get something more suited to the genre. I've tried the ESP Eclipse-II in Vintage Black, but I hated the satin feel, so I was going to import a ESP Eclipse-I CTM FT in Gloss Black (for the color, gloss, and full thickness), but then I came across the ESP Viper which has 24 frets (a huge plus) and it looks pretty killer! I've read perfect reviews on both, and now I'm wondering if anyone has had a problem with one or the other, or your thoughts! Thanks in advance!

http://www.promusictools.com/esp-eclipse-i-ctm-ft-gbk-full-thickness.html#

http://bmusic.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15_20&products_id=4399

Note: I'm not going to get an LTD, I DO notice the difference in quality!

 

[Line666]

If you're having issues with Drop B on a PRS which is a 25" neck afaik, why would you switch to a guitar with a 24.75" neck? You should definitely look into getting something with a longer scale neck of at least 25.5" instead - for both tuning stability and intonation.

 

[Red Phoenix]

Yes, why not a Horizon or M-II?

 

[Gujukal]

If you're having issues with Drop B on a PRS which is a 25" neck afaik, why would you switch to a guitar with a 24.75" neck? You should definitely look into getting something with a longer scale neck of at least 25.5" instead - for both tuning stability and intonation.

I got my ESP Eclipse tuned in drop A# and I've seen people tune it lower so it should be no problem. Maybe the strings on the PRS wasn't thick enough? I would personally use something like 12-60 for drop B on a 24.75" scale guitar.

 

[Line666]

I got my ESP Eclipse tuned in drop A# and I've seen people tune it lower so it should be no problem. Maybe the strings on the PRS wasn't thick enough? I would personally use something like 12-60 for drop B on a 24.75" scale guitar.

Yeah, I'm sure if you stick big enough strings on it you could get away with it - I've done it in the past but you definitely lose out tonally with this method compared to say 25.5" and although I am a big fan of sg/les paul shapes they are not suited to staying in tune with heavy handed pickers - I personally couldn't recommend a 24.75" scale neck for anything lower than drop C as being something any more than workable - which is not what I'd drop 1k+ on a guitar for.

 

[egan.]

I have to agree. Short scale+ big strings+big frets = intonation headaches IME. lots of guys do it but that doesn't mean it's ideal.

 

[CraigJohnsJr]

I'm aware of the scale length, but the guitar simply doesn't seem to be built for it. I've used thick strings (latest were 13's) and between staying in tune and the intonation, it's been a nightmare. I've played the Eclipse in B several times and it's a breeze! Seems backwards when you compare scale length, but I suppose the makers of the guitars had different things in mind.

 

[guitarfishbay]

Sounds like a setup issue to me if you're having problems with tuning stability.

Unless you had the nut modified to accommodate 13s I'd guess that might be causing you problems. Do you ever hear a pinging sound when tuning? If so the string is probably too thick for the slot and the nut slot would need widening slightly.

If you don't like the PRS by all means sell it but I can't see why a CU24 wouldn't work for drop B tuning - especially if it has the adjustable trem bridge which most CU24s seem to have.

 

[Flow Of Time]

Sounds like a setup issue to me if you're having problems with tuning stability.

Unless you had the nut modified to accommodate 13s I'd guess that might be causing you problems. Do you ever hear a pinging sound when tuning? If so the string is probably too thick for the slot and the nut slot would need widening slightly.

If you don't like the PRS by all means sell it but I can't see why a CU24 wouldn't work for drop B tuning - especially if it has the adjustable trem bridge which most CU24s seem to have.

I always wondered about that widening the nuts thingy (pun definately not intended). Who actually does that and can tell me why it helps? I don't have tuning issues, but I think I have that pinging sound your talking about.. I'm using 11-45s

 

[guitarfishbay]

Well it is important to differentiate between pinging at the nut and pinging caused by string trees.

PRS CU guitars don't have string trees so if there is any pinging near the headstock it is usually the nut.

When it is the nut what is happening is the string is too thick for the nut slot and causing enough friction to get stuck during movement. This can cause you issues both with tuning and with bending strings. For example if you tune it and it gets stuck and then you bend a note which then releases the string from being stuck you'll find the string will have gone flat. Or if you tune a string to the correct note, bend it and then it gets stuck it will have gone sharp.

If your nut is cut properly you shouldn't have any binding issues because the string will be able to move freely within the nut slot.

A guitar tech should be able to widen problematic nut slots with some files if it is an issue. The quick fix solution is to lubricate the nut with graphite shavings from a pencil mixed with vaseline - but this is not a permanent fix and just helps to lube the nut for a while. Some people like to lube properly cut nuts anyway but I don't find this necessary with properly cut PRS nuts as they are self lubricating.

In your case if you are having pinging issues but you're not noticing tuning problems does your guitar have string trees?

I changed a string tree on a Telecaster once because the vintage style one on the guitar was at such an angle that the string was slightly digging in to the edge of the string tree, causing pinging sounds when tuning. I changed it for a roller style one and haven't had any pinging since.

 

[TPMusic]

Regarding the Eclipse versus the Viper I personally liked the Eclipse better. I have never really liked the Viper body shape though, so that could have been part of why I didn't like it. But I just felt like the Eclipse was more comfortable and a little more solid. However I would not personally own either of those because it did not feel as comfortable as other models for play lead guitar. And I almost always stuck to E Standard when playing these guitars because that is the tuning I use and it is what felt the most comfortable for those guitars.

I was going to suggest the MH-1000 Evertune/EC-1000 Evertune, but then I noticed you said you didn't want an LTD you wanted ESP... So I checked for the ESP version and their is not one. But I would definitely look into a guitar with a 25.5 inch scale length and an Evertune bridge. You will never have to worry about tuning again once you get used to it.

However, since you want an ESP, I might suggest the FRX series. My friend has one, I even borrowed it for about a month haha and I have the LTD equivalent which would be the F series and I have to say they are extremely solid, they just felt a little more solid than the other ESP guitars to me and i think it looks pretty sick. I also dislike low tunings, but I used to learn songs that were drop B or B standard or sometimes lower and it handled the tuning quite well with 11-52 gauge strings. However, i primarily stick to E standard or D Standard tuning so that is where the majority of my experience lies.

 

[CraigJohnsJr]

Nope, no pinging or anything. Just doesn't feel tight, goes out of tune easily, intonation doesn't last long after set up... just not ideal!

 

[aquino_joselois]

how about the layout of volume, tone knobs and pickup selector? do you really need two volume knobs?

 

[atoragon]

staying in the ltd house, I would suggest the model that I use, the ltd mh 417, which is 25,5", and I use it with 0.11-60 strings.
The intonation with that scale is just perfect.

 

[Rex Rocker]

Mehh. I think 24.75" can be made to work. Drop B isn't that low.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I use 0.12-0.68 for Drop B in my 24,75" Caparison Horus. No problems.

 

[Max Morton]

I use 11-56 in drop B on 24.75 all the time. They're on the soft side, but that's how I like them. Totally playable.

 

[CraigJohnsJr]

Hey guys! This is a pretty old post. I'll update you all on what went down though! I was asking because I don't have access to ESP's near me, with the exception of one Eclipse II (cutaway model). I was interested in the full thickness Eclipses and the Vipers. I ended up ordering an ESP Eclipse II Standard. I use 13-65 and the tension is great! The intonation isn't bad, but I was more worried about the tuning. On my PRS, and I understand it's an issue with a lot of drop tuned shorter scale guitars, notes would be sharp on the attack, and then ring out flat. The tone was a little bland at first, perhaps because of the thicker strings, but I switched the JB/'59 set to BKP Juggernauts and it's like a whole new guitar.