External Preamp for Presonus Inspire?

[gorath23]

I've been having some issues with my mic'd up Guitar sound and I'm beginning to get really frustrated with it. Now I do have a tendency to think that new equipment will fix problems rolleyes so I am trying to rationally pinpoint where its all going wrong before splurging unnecessary cash. My mic'd tracks just sound very small and lifeless and comparing my dual/quad tracked stuff to others around here I haven't been able to come close to that full, thick sound.

My signel chain is this:

Greco/Schecter (good pups in both) - Fireball- Blackstar 4x12- SM57- Inspire.

I have played around a fair bit with mic positioning and using the white noise method to find the sweet spots, pulling the mic back an inch/ up against the grill etc. None of it seems to help. What leads me to believe that maybe the mic preamp is letting me down is that consistent 'lack' in the recorded sound that stays no matter where I place the mic or what cab I use/ amp settings/ guitar etc. I will be posting clips and photos in a moment, I just need to give the drum reference a quick mix...

Anyway, I'm thinking that an external mic preamp may help and fill out the sound a bit. I'm not really looking for suggestions as I feel that the M-Audio DMP3 would be the best in my pricerange, and offer a decent upgrade compared to the Inspire (I'm not expecting miracles though). Anyway, if you could all maybe listen to the clips and have a look at my settings etc and see what your experience tells you, I'd really appreciate it!

EDIT:

OK clips as promised. It doesn't sound so bad in a mix situation, so you'll probably tell me to stop being a whining baby about it. Still it would be nice to have an appraising ear go over them to see if you can hear anything you would change.

Dual Tracked, Open chords:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...lic/As Winter Lays its Seige DualTracked2.mp3

Dual Tracked, Chug:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...lic/As Winter Lays its Seige DualTracked1.mp3

Quad tracked, Open chords:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...blic/As Winter Lays its Seige SampleTest2.mp3

Quad tracked, Chug:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...blic/As Winter Lays its Seige SampleTest1.mp3

LP/HP only, little bit of SSL on the Mix Bus

 

[Machinated]

I think the mic preamp really has little to do with the tone - I wouldn't recommend fixing it right now to fix your problems. I think this can be proven by people putting out great results with "low end" pre's and even converters. Just keep going at it, try tweaking the amp more. I'm reamping right now, and have spent AGES getting the tone right on the amp. I spent ages getting the mic in the right place, but even still the amp has needed a ton of tweaking (that said it is a mesa haha).

Lesson learnt for me - keep the bass around 10 o clock.

But yeah I think your preamp will be fine for now. Maybe you can post a clip and I'll try and help.

 

[gorath23]

OK pics:

To show I'm not mic'ing in a really weird position.

 

[gorath23]

I think the mic preamp really has little to do with the tone - I wouldn't recommend fixing it right now to fix your problems. I think this can be proven by people putting out great results with "low end" pre's and even converters. Just keep going at it, try tweaking the amp more. I'm reamping right now, and have spent AGES getting the tone right on the amp. I spent ages getting the mic in the right place, but even still the amp has needed a ton of tweaking (that said it is a mesa haha).

Lesson learnt for me - keep the bass around 10 o clock.

But yeah I think your preamp will be fine for now. Maybe you can post a clip and I'll try and help.

Thats what I was thinking, but I can't think of what else to try. I know that room sounds don't always equate to the best mic'd sounds....but given that the SM57 is kinda toppy sounding, I'm trying to keep as much low end + low mids in the tone. Obviously its not overdone though, it sounds fine 'in the room'.

Give me half an hour and I'll post clips. Thanks man.

 

[Machinated]

I'd say you can get a great low end with a 57. Again with these tracks I'm reamping now, I'm getting plenty. With your tone, record a bit of a song, and listen back to it really objectively. Think to yourself "does this have too much bass?" "too much mids? too little? overgained" anything like that. I think with a bit of practice you will listen to a tone and straight away think that sounds "small" because the gain is too high, and needs slightly less mids to open it up or whatever. Try and think like that. It sounds kind of obvious but I think a big part of it is knowing exactly what to look for.

Also what I find helpful is to listen to some guitar tones that you know are good, so you don't lose focus and you get a nice rounded tone. Also for convenience sometimes Ill stick a gearbox on another track and get an "OK" tone quickly, just so I can compare and make sure my reamped tracks are sounding better.

Hope this helps and doesn't come across as something really obvious and patronizing - just sharing what I have learned.

 

[gorath23]

No, thanks, its nice to have somebody to bounce problems off! I guess the problem is that I have no idea where to go or what exactly is wrong. The sound is lacking in low end definitely but also, overall the sound is just thin and weedy. The gain is set pretty low (6.30-7.00 o'clock) which is still fairly gained on the Engl. The only left to me now is just start choosing completely random mic placings as all the generally recommended starting points, white noise methods etc haven't worked. As Metallica famously claim 'trouble loves company' my Inspire has been on the blink for the last few days and now is refusing to sync, even with a driver reinstall, so I may have no choice about changing gear. Unfortunately it means that for the time being I can't post any clips.......

 

[Machinated]

Yeah. If it sounds thin from the mic, but sounds big in the room, then try moving the mic to the side a bit more (away from the center), or maybe even back a tiny bit (away from the cab). Its really getting the balance of the amp settings and mic position. I haven't had a lot of experience with ENGL's, but I had a bit of a hard time getting a tone I was happy with with them. I think they can pull off more "different" sounds than what we are used to, and a lot of the ENGL stuff I have heard is definitely in that category.

Do you have access to an amp like a 5150 (very easy to record) or something similar? To me amps like this need very little work (as there are very few knobs and they don't make THAT much difference to the tone).

 

[cobhc]

I've been having the same problems. I keep blaming my gear as well, for the lack of presence in my recordings. But I think my problem is not having the means to give the amp some serious volume, get the speakers moving and get the amp roaring. It's something I won't be able to do for a while. I'd like someone who gets great tone, (Ed, Lasse etc.) to post some clips at low volume. Like a 5150 with the Master on like 0.5 or something, where it's at the equivalent of normal speaking volume, to compare with a clip of the amp cranked, to see if it's really volume that is causing my problems.

 

[Machinated]

I won't even need to post clips to tell you that you need more gain than speaking volume. I think you can get away with not doing it like stupidly loud, but at the same time you have to get everything churning out notes like they are meant to. These amps are designed to be played at least so loud.

I'll try and get some raw clips up at some point, although with that said most of my guitar tones are pretty raw (other than LP and HP's and some SLIGHT EQ).

 

[cobhc]

I won't even need to post clips to tell you that you need more gain than speaking volume. I think you can get away with not doing it like stupidly loud, but at the same time you have to get everything churning out notes like they are meant to. These amps are designed to be played at least so loud.

I'll try and get some raw clips up at some point, although with that said most of my guitar tones are pretty raw (other than LP and HP's and some SLIGHT EQ).

Yeah, well maybe not quite that quiet. I just have no way of cranking the amp, short of building some kinda fort around it with blankets and shit.

 

[gorath23]

OK clips as promised. It doesn't sound so bad in a mix situation, so you'll probably tell me to stop being a whining baby about it. Still it would be nice to have an appraising ear go over them to see if you can hear anything you would change.

Dual Tracked, Open chords:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...lic/As Winter Lays its Seige DualTracked2.mp3

Dual Tracked, Chug:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...lic/As Winter Lays its Seige DualTracked1.mp3

Quad tracked, Open chords:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...blic/As Winter Lays its Seige SampleTest2.mp3

Quad tracked, Chug:
http://cid-5ba3958448d400f2.skydriv...blic/As Winter Lays its Seige SampleTest1.mp3

LP/HP only, little bit of SSL on the Mix Bus