Fizzy guitars...frequencies?

[Eschatologist]

Hey guys, I'm embarking on a mission to clean up my guitar sounds this weekend, once and for all! Just thought before I start vigorously experimenting that I would ask where the fizziness of the guitars sits in the spectrum? Aside from mic placement and good amp/guitar, what frequencies should I be keeping an eye on?

 

[Metaltastic]

I would say between 6-8k, but really, the most universally important aspects are mic placement and gain (as in, not too much), as well as the treble and/or presence controls on some amps. What all are you using?

 

[KeithTidd]

i would say anywhere from 6-13k. take a parametric EQ and sweep it to find the fizz, then dial it out.

 

[Eschatologist]

I would say between 6-8k, but really, the most universally important aspects are mic placement and gain (as in, not too much), as well as the treble and/or presence controls on some amps. What all are you using?

LTD M1000 w/ EMG 81s, Engl Savage 120, Vader 4x12, SM57, RME FF400

I dunno, maybe I just don't have enough experience yet, or maybe I'm just never satisfied. I am finding my guitars are just not full enough in the mix, they always come out sounding weaker than the drums, vox, and bass...not like the wall of tone we all love. I've tried quad tracking too and I'm still not there. I am wondering if the Vader cab is suspect, if its just too thin sounding unless I really crank it, which my place is not big enough to do properly.

 

[ahjteam]

less gain, more volume, move the mic a bit away from the center and more towards the edge of the cone

 

[Eschatologist]

Where do you normally have your guitars peaking at during tracking? I've been aiming for -6, is this ok or should I be going lower?

 

[egan.]

Where do you normally have your guitars peaking at during tracking? I've been aiming for -6, is this ok or should I be going lower?

as long as you aren't peaking you're fine.

 

[Notuern]

Edited post: Didn't realize you wrote TRACKING(36th hour awake).

 

[KeithTidd]

if you're recording at 24bits for should aim for around -18dbfs average, it can eak higher than that though. you can go higher but you're not really gaining much.

 

[Metaltastic]

I've never used or even heard a Vader before, but I've always regarded them with suspicion for recording - a cab company that prides itself on power handling over all else, I dunno; I've heard they punch amazingly live because of the speaker headroom, but I could easily see that translating to sterile and thin sounding under a mic. Get yourself something with Vintage 30s, I'd say - it's not like it's impossible to get great results from other speakers, but you'll never find one more tried-and-true than that!

Also, I don't know how you have the Savage dialed in, but there sure is a crap-load to tweak on that amp, so that might also be a culprit...

 

[JonWormwood]

A good guitar tone comes from some phat ass bass guitar up in that bitch. Srsly.

 

[Ermz]

It depends on too many factors. Each guitar sound is unique, though some cabs and amps tend to voice their harshness in certain frequencies. Most of the time you'll find you need to cut around 3k to allow the vocal to have some room and chances are there will be fizz anywhere from 5 to 10k.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

A good guitar tone comes from some phat ass bass guitar up in that bitch. Srsly.

x2.

You don't(or at least I didn't) realize how important the bass is to the guitar tone at first, but it plays succchhh a huge role.

 

[siegfried]

A good guitar tone comes from some phat ass bass guitar up in that bitch. Srsly.

Any tips to "glue" them together? Or to find "compatible" bass for my guitar sound (in sample libraries world)? Thanks!

 

[Eschatologist]

I've never used or even heard a Vader before, but I've always regarded them with suspicion for recording - a cab company that prides itself on power handling over all else, I dunno; I've heard they punch amazingly live because of the speaker headroom, but I could easily see that translating to sterile and thin sounding under a mic. Get yourself something with Vintage 30s, I'd say - it's not like it's impossible to get great results from other speakers, but you'll never find one more tried-and-true than that!

Also, I don't know how you have the Savage dialed in, but there sure is a crap-load to tweak on that amp, so that might also be a culprit...

You are speaking much truth, my friend! I've had the Savage for a few months and I am still figuring out all the intricacies! As for the Vader, it does crush playing loud and live...but I recently tried my head on a cab loaded with V30/75 X pattern, and I noticed a pretty big difference. I agree with the V30, so many ppl complain about them but like the 57 it seems to be the fall-back recording staple that always delivers consistent results.

 

[Eschatologist]

I was thinking of getting a 2x12 with V30s strictly for recording. Does anyone think I am going to notice a huge difference from having a 4x12, on tape?

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, honestly, as a previous owner of a 2x12 (albeit an oversized one), I found it was noticeably fizzier and had less overall fullness - you can score a used Mesa 4x12 (whether it be Rectifier Standard Oversized or Stiletto Traditional) for $400-$600 (EDIT: Assuming you're in the US ), and it really doesn't get any better than that. As for which you'd prefer, do a search, cuz there have been a few recent threads debating the two, but the short version is that the Recto OS is larger than any other 4x12, and thus produces a slightly scooped sound with thundering lows that's excellent for smooth, modern hi-gain tones (a la "This Godless Endeavor," JFAC's "Genesis" "All that Remains" stuff, etc.) - however, I went for the smaller Stiletto Traditional (which, I should mention, is still the size of every other 4x12 out there), because I prefer more of an aggressive midrange "bark," and I'm really happy with it! (check out the "Tiny Terror Test" on the soundclick player on my myspace in my sig, that was through that cab, and I'm really proud of it!)

 

[Eschatologist]

Cool dude, thanks for the direction. I won't waste any $$$ on a 2x12 then. I was thinking of selling the Vader and ordering an Engl cab, but there's a guy in town who is selling an OS Recto just like you described for $600 Can (yes I'm Canadian in mint condition. I am debating scraping up the cash for that, though I am broke as fuck right now. I think I'll wait, see if it sells any time soon, lowball an offer and see if he bites in a few months...I know he's been trying to sell for a while now already. In the meantime I might just take advantage of the Savage's line out features and make do with impulses, since there are lots of great ones I've collected recently. I hate to pass up good deals...

 

[Machinated]

Mesa OS is awesome - I love it! When I had the savage at my place it sounded best through the OS compared to the other cabs on hand.

 

[Eschatologist]

Mesa OS is awesome - I love it! When I had the savage at my place it sounded best through the OS compared to the other cabs on hand.

Don't tell me that Did you get a chance to compare it to an Engl XXL? From what I can tell, that seems to be Engl's version of the Recto OS...oversized cab with V30s, enhanced bottom end.