Fountainhead help (band members here)
- Thread starter ElephantTalk
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Asgeir Mickelson
Alpha male
Nope. Agnostic.
Being an atheist is to BELIEVE that god doesn't exist. Now, we don't want to base life on beliefs would we?
- Asgeir
progmetaldan
Member
Wouldn't Agnostic be Believing in something, just not knowing or acknowledging what it actually is...
Sorry, just had to ask...
Sorry, just had to ask...
noble savage
Member
Wouldn't Agnostic be Believing in something, just not knowing or acknowledging what it actually is...
Sorry, just had to ask...
It is just being in the middle of the argument for or against gods existence. You are on neutral grounds.
Asgeir Mickelson
Alpha male
I don't believe in any religion which cannot be backed up by science. Atheism is based on the same as religion: Belief - not facts. To me it's obvious that god doesn't exist but I can't prove he DOESN'T exist either. Logic and reason tells me there isn't anything special about life on earth – and that there's no higher being which made us and control us. Lars and I discussed this once and he said "Let's say I believe in a refrigerator on the dark side of the moon". Logic and reason tells us that there is no refrigerator on the moon, but can you prove it isn't there?
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FrostbittenGrimness
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Starman2112
Member
- Feb 18, 2007
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Asgeir. Thank you for joining in. I agree that science and reason should be the basis of beliefs. I think the definitions are key though. Beliefs and strong assumptions tend to be interchangeable.
Without the strong assumptions then we could not function in life. I find the theory of evolution lacking in many aspects. Especially the speed of light and the age of the universe. ANd what about the "uncaused cause?" How did life begin without a creator? The problem there lies where did the creator come from? Of course all is speculation based on reason that we have been given, in my opinion. I am of the deistic persuasion. Like we are like god's play toys or experiments. Either way, it does not change the way I live. As Evergrey's Tom Englund says, i am my own god.
Just because you can't PROVE the refrigerator is not there, does not mean it IS there. One has to use probabilty to assume what we know about matter and life that a refirgerator is most likely not on the dark side of the moon or whatever and proceed from there. Although one cannot say 100% it is not, you could say 99.99% and have to trust that last .01% as a strong assumption to live by.
I really hope this one is jsut getting started.
While I have this chance Asgeir, I want to thank you for the unbelievable drumming on Borknagar and Spiral Architect albums. The oppurtunity to chat with you about more than just music and speak to you as almost a friend is amazing beyond belief. I have been playing the drums for about 6 years and you are in my top 10 favorite drummers. I also like to see another "intelligent" drummer again constantly breaking the stereotype. My brother and I have a three piece tech metal band been trying to get off the ground for years. (We're really good!) Rock on Asgeir.
Without the strong assumptions then we could not function in life. I find the theory of evolution lacking in many aspects. Especially the speed of light and the age of the universe. ANd what about the "uncaused cause?" How did life begin without a creator? The problem there lies where did the creator come from? Of course all is speculation based on reason that we have been given, in my opinion. I am of the deistic persuasion. Like we are like god's play toys or experiments. Either way, it does not change the way I live. As Evergrey's Tom Englund says, i am my own god.
Just because you can't PROVE the refrigerator is not there, does not mean it IS there. One has to use probabilty to assume what we know about matter and life that a refirgerator is most likely not on the dark side of the moon or whatever and proceed from there. Although one cannot say 100% it is not, you could say 99.99% and have to trust that last .01% as a strong assumption to live by.
I really hope this one is jsut getting started.
While I have this chance Asgeir, I want to thank you for the unbelievable drumming on Borknagar and Spiral Architect albums. The oppurtunity to chat with you about more than just music and speak to you as almost a friend is amazing beyond belief. I have been playing the drums for about 6 years and you are in my top 10 favorite drummers. I also like to see another "intelligent" drummer again constantly breaking the stereotype. My brother and I have a three piece tech metal band been trying to get off the ground for years. (We're really good!) Rock on Asgeir.
noble savage
Member
Very well said! One thing, among many, that has always bothered me about religion is that there is a lot of conflict between what we observe in nature and religious beliefs. The idea that some entity of higher intellect zapped me and every other creature and plant on earth is absurd. We share no less than 96% of our genes with chimps but yet there are still people who refuse to accept that we are related to monkeys. It would make sense if we shared absolutely nothing in common with any animal on Earth, but clearly that is not the case.
I am completely open to the idea of a god but there is no evidence of any such thing. Until the day when someone finally proves to me that a god exists and that our only purpose on Earth is not just to pass on our genes I will continue to be skeptical regarding this form of logic.
progmetaldan
Member
The only thing I'd say about the chimps argument, is that if we were in fact made by a creator, it would make sense that we carry similar genes or whatever, because generally speaking, someone who makes lots of things is going to reuse something that works, rather than invent something completely different. For example, if you build a house, you'll use mostly the same frame or frame design, no matter what sort of house (shape, size etc.) you're building, because it works best in keeping the house from falling down. It doesn't mean every house is the same though... Similar genes shows that the creator made something that works and used that idea to create different species with variations on that idea to make them unique...
I would have thought that it would be less believable for all those genes to have randomly come together in a way that worked so well, despite all the intricate design. The complexity of this design and it's accuracy I think speaks highly of a creator's hand, not random chance that 'evolved'...
Just my 2 cents worth...
I would have thought that it would be less believable for all those genes to have randomly come together in a way that worked so well, despite all the intricate design. The complexity of this design and it's accuracy I think speaks highly of a creator's hand, not random chance that 'evolved'...
Just my 2 cents worth...
noble savage
Member
I think you missed my point. We are not here randomly! We have evolved through natural selection. With all due respect, if you actually understood evolution and natural selection you would see that it is not some random happening it has evidence to back it up and has been directly observed in nature. We share genes from EVERY plant and animal on Earth because we are related to every plant and animal on Earth. Now, saying that a creator put all life on Earth already as is, as if it had evolved, makes less sense than saying it took logical,steps to were it is today, and is continually observed to be progressing towards today. Evolution is the occams razor the reason why we are here. Read this, it will save me explaining.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
progmetaldan
Member
Don't worry, I do understand Evolution & Natural Selection, I did Biology last year for Yr 12 (though I must admit I hated that subject... )
Anyway, I was talking about the randomness initially, such as the creation of whatever it was that everything supposedly evolved from...
I do believe Natural Selection occurs, however I don't believe it results in entirely new species... You understand how NS works (variation in the species, geographical isolation, those in the population who have the necessary attributes for survival reproduce, others die out, thus eventually only those with attribute are left etc.) I don't think this has anything to do with Evolution, it is just the separation of species which already exist, allowing those who ALREADY had a certain attribute to flourish in one area while those with another attribute flourish elsewhere...
Anyway, in order to keep an open mind on the subject (I have studied Evolution as well as Creationism, and made up my own mind on the matter) I'd encourage u to check out:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
It is recognized, respected Scientists, who find Scientific evidence which supports Creation rather than Evolution... By all means, have an opinion, but I reckon it's definately worth seeing something from all angles before making up your mind...
)Anyway, I was talking about the randomness initially, such as the creation of whatever it was that everything supposedly evolved from...
I do believe Natural Selection occurs, however I don't believe it results in entirely new species... You understand how NS works (variation in the species, geographical isolation, those in the population who have the necessary attributes for survival reproduce, others die out, thus eventually only those with attribute are left etc.) I don't think this has anything to do with Evolution, it is just the separation of species which already exist, allowing those who ALREADY had a certain attribute to flourish in one area while those with another attribute flourish elsewhere...
Anyway, in order to keep an open mind on the subject (I have studied Evolution as well as Creationism, and made up my own mind on the matter) I'd encourage u to check out:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp
It is recognized, respected Scientists, who find Scientific evidence which supports Creation rather than Evolution... By all means, have an opinion, but I reckon it's definately worth seeing something from all angles before making up your mind...
Starman2112
Member
- Feb 18, 2007
- 38
- 0
- 6
Yes, Natural Selection is definitely true, however, the idea of it all starting by itself is not probable. That would mean that the first 3 or 4 seconds of the universe the laws of physics totally break down.
I am not "arguing for Jesus" ( I am not by any stretch of the imagination Christian) or anything like that, I think all that is bullshit. Religion is most definitely a crutch for the weak, but scientifically and even more so, logically the idea of a creator is much more probable than "The Big Bang" or what have you.
I am not "arguing for Jesus" ( I am not by any stretch of the imagination Christian) or anything like that, I think all that is bullshit. Religion is most definitely a crutch for the weak, but scientifically and even more so, logically the idea of a creator is much more probable than "The Big Bang" or what have you.
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