From the Horses Mouth

[saxonmckenz]

Was at Bloodstock Festival in Derby last weekend & met up with SAXON's manager/booking agent. He told me that the South American Dates would be cancelled & that SAXON are having talks with Channnel 4 for making the Doc. on them. He also said that the DVD will be delayed slightly (and that i am in it somewhere. Could have been too stop me pestering him). However, he said that everything is happening because saxon are getting more recognition & publiciity which they deserve. Everything is happening for a positive reason. New album is mostly fininshed but because of Biff's high standards will probably be done again- the band love it though.

Just want to say that Thomas is a top man & thanks for talking.

Paxoman!!!! He remembers us from Berlin.

 

[Paxoman]

Paxoman!!!! He remembers us from Berlin.

Thanks for the info mate. A documentary about Saxon would be brill, but if it's gonna be like the Osbournes type thing, then I'm not so sure.

 

[Mad Dan McCafferty]

There's already been a doc about Saxon, it's called 'This Is Spinal Tap'!!!

(in case anyone doesn't know, the spinal tap movie researchers toured with Saxon before writing the movie )

 

[TheAssMaster]

You know what? I have come back on here after a night out specifically because the first post on this thread has been bugging me all night, only to find that someone has beaten me to it - Spinal Tap.

Now, Spinal Tap is fucking funny, I think that anyone who has ever been in a band recognises themself in it, and no-body should take themself too seriously. That said, when I read that someone from Channel 4 is interested in making a documentary, alarm bells ring.

Let's face it, Saxon are not a young upcoming band, "the next big thing". They are not legendary hell-raisers like old Ozzy, a renowned comic. They are, to the ignorant layman, a Heavy Metal band who had a successful release in the early 80's and who are still plodding around, never having quite made the real big-time like Maiden or Priest. That would be hilarious wouldn't it chaps, let's make a documentary and take the piss when they are cancelling tours and selling a few CDs to a hardcore of ageing rockers who still believe that Saxon are going to headline Donington and bring a fucking huge eagle rig with them.
It'll be a scream, won't it?

Absolutely not. I would say, FFS, wake up, anyone from Channel 4 is not going to be celebrating my favourite band of all time, documenting their trials and tribulations and showing how their sheer doggedness has kept them going through all the shit.
No, they will want to get Biff in a suit of armour sitting on a fucking horse so they can take the piss out of a group of 50-odd yr old blokes who write songs about Richard the Lionheart and Witchfinders. They will make the band, and us, the fans, look like complete fucking idiots. I don't want to hear that bloke who does the mock Peter Kay documentaries solemnly describing the band having trouble in a motorway service station because the till-boy thinks they are a Saga coach party. No fucking way!!!!

Surely the management can see this?? Would a documentary win the band new fans? Erm, nope. It may, possibly, just maybe, make people associate the name Saxon with a bunch of sad losers who are the Real Spinal Tap. These cunts want to mock our beloved Saxon!
Make a documentary, put it on a DVD, release it to us,the fans, who WANT to see more of them, not expose them to an audience of Big Brother fans who couldn't give a flying fuck about them, their history or their future, let alone any of their music.
I sense one of those legendary "bad management decisions" about to manifest itself, of the type that have kept Saxon down for all these years while their peers went to the USA and became huge, and it is fucking well eating me up!!

NO NO NO !!!!!!

 

[GOSS]

Channel 4 is not going to be celebrating my favourite band of all time ...They will make the band, and us, the fans, look like complete fucking idiots. It may, possibly, just maybe, make people associate the name Saxon with a bunch of sad losers who are the Real Spinal Tap. These cunts want to mock our beloved Saxon!

Hope it will not be like Channel 4's last venture into the realms of Heavy Metal ! Remember the Comic Strip's "Bad News Tour" at Donnington '86 ?? Saxon may have to re-paint their tour bus bright yellow !

 

[saxon747rock]

First of i dont give a flying fuck how old members of bands are give it saxon or any other band, You only got to listen to Lionheart, and unleash, etc etc, to no that saxon put most up and coming bands to shame when it comes to writing and performing shit hot metal.

As for the channel 4 doc, Im not sure it will either do saxon more good, or then again it might have the complete opposite effect depending on how the doc was done, if its going to be made into some sort of spinal tap - bad news thing then i say forget it, and like the other member says stick it on a dvd for the fans to buy, if it is going to be done for channel 4 then saxon should have a massive say in how it should be done and not left to the producers etc etc saying to saxon do this , do that sort of thing.

MMM not really sure bout this one. Might be better channel 4 showing a full saxon concert in england from the forthcoming tour in 2007.

 

[Sammi951]

I'm tending to agree with Assmaster on this - I doubt very much that they want to portray Saxon in a good way - if they do, then brill, but somehow I doubt it

 

[WILKS]

They have spent years regaining their status as top metal band.This could undo all that hard work.

 

[TheAssMaster]

.

if it is going to be done for channel 4 then saxon should have a massive say in how it should be done and not left to the producers etc etc saying to saxon do this , do that sort of thing.

I think we all KNOW that they will have very little, if any editorial control over the content and how they are portayed. Maybe if they had the clout of U2 or similar, but not Saxon.
And I think surely everyone knows deep in their hearts that any such documentary will NOT have a positive slant, there is simply no reason to do so, that sort of thing would only interest us. To appeal to a larger swathe of viewers, the only possible attraction would be to mock, or pity, the band and loyal supporters.
As has been said, the band kick the shit out of upcoming bands in terms of talent and obviously their longevity, but a mainstream terrestrial TV channel isn't going to be looking at that angle, nor at the way the band have steadily toiled away :- LP, tour, LP, tour, etc for years, putting in genuine good old-fashioned hard work - paying their dues.
No, that isn't the way things are done these days. Bands are manufactured into easily marketed packages, voted into existence on some vapid reality TV show, and rocketed into "celebrity" prominence. (Ignore the fact they fall back into obscurity just as quickly, but hey, the next band are being voted in at that very moment).
Entertainment isn't about a little reward for honest hard work, in Britain today it is about other people's misfortune, being elevated to stardom at the whim of the media, instantly, with pre-determined disposable product. Saxon are the polar opposite, and so they can only be made a target to be sneered at, not respected. In the eyes of the popular media, that sort of thing should be laughed at as archaic, like we laugh at people from the 70's in flares, kipper ties and knitted tank tops.

Pleeeeeease don't let them make this mistake!!!!!! You all know I'm right!!!

 

[valanx]

You all know I'm right!!!

Yep im thinking so. Those are 2 Great posts mate, very well thought out and a good argument for why this could be a very bad idea!

cheers!

 

[Paxoman]

Yeah you could well be right. The only thing is that Biff isn't stupid, and you would think that he wouldn't let Channel 4 get away with taking the piss. This isn't the 1980's now, where I think even Biff would admit that Saxon made a lot of mistakes.

The band would have to have the final say on the end product. If channel 4 don't agree to that, then forget it, it's just not worth it. As has been said, it would be obvious what kind of documentary channel 4 are trying to make. A big piss take one.

 

[WILKS]

I have baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad feeling about this.

 

[TheAssMaster]

Yeah you could well be right. The only thing is that Biff isn't stupid, and you would think that he wouldn't let Channel 4 get away with taking the piss. This isn't the 1980's now, where I think even Biff would admit that Saxon made a lot of mistakes.

The band would have to have the final say on the end product. If channel 4 don't agree to that, then forget it, it's just not worth it. As has been said, it would be obvious what kind of documentary channel 4 are trying to make. A big piss take one.

No, I'm sure Biff isn't stupid, but he is a musician, and once his part in this thing is done, it is done, ie. he does his bit in front of the camera, then it goes to be turned into the format desired by the makers. Biff won't be there "advising", nor will any of his staff. No-one will give them a copy pre-transmission for vetting, program makers don't do that for ANYONE, unless they are footing the bill. The program makers will make assurances they are not going to portray the band in a bad light, nor take the piss, but they won't need to. And this is why:

Any such project, not funded by the band themselves, won't be a sanitised promo advertising the band at their best. It will be a warts and all fly-on-the-wall thing, because they cost peanuts to make, and even the most seasoned pro will soon forget the camera crew, let their guard down and make a complete twat of themself. It won't involve any bias from the program makers, they will simply say - "Hey, that's what the cameras captured, that's what we showed". Judicious editing aside, the band will make themselves out to be arseholes, or incompetant, or plain sad, EVERYONE throws a wobbler now and again, or says something daft, even me (rarely, of course!!)
That is what we, the viewing public, want to see. We don't want to see Ozzy living like a king in a fucking huge mansion (partly paid for by me buying his stuff), we want to see him stepping in dogshit in his kitchen. Ozzy's a rare case though, we can laugh at it in a nice way, he is a natural comedian and no-one really wants to see him hurt or belittled. Almost all other "celebrities" aren't so lucky - the public at large enjoyed making some has-beens scoff beetles out in the jungle, no-one wanted to see them bravely battling adversity, they wanted to see them get the squirts, go hysterical and their whole world collapse. Such is entertainment in the 21st century.

Saxon, whilst very dear to all our hearts, mean NOTHING to the Big Brother audience, and very little to the people who watch those "Jo Whiley presents...." type of shows late night Channel 4. They want to see Franz Ferdinand or The Killers or whoever, though the fact that I now know those names probably means they are old-hat in the eyes of the target audience. Saxon, and you and I, do not figure very highly in any demographic at the Channel 4 ratings dept.
In fact, so low, I can't imagine anyone being commisioned to do a documentary on the band unless it is to demonstrate "quirky" Heavy Metal fans and bands, kinda like a "look at these social misfits and outcasts" type of program, maybe they are doing another on people who go to Star Trek conventions and call their kids Spock etc; or the nutters who were on the other week who were convinced their kids were psychic; or the kid who became a TV Evangelist preacher in the USA; or the blokes who feed their wives up to be so fat they can't get out of bed; shall I go on?

I know I'm banging on about this, but as you can tell, the band and their music mean a hell of a lot to me, in a unique way. I cannot think of anything worse for their career in the UK, than to be lampooned on the telly, along with the 1981 throw-backs I see at their gigs in cut-offs with "Rainbow Rising" patches and mullets. (Not that I have a problem with those fans, I looked like that back then, but I know there are a lot of people out there who cringe when they think what they did and wore back in the 80s, and who would delight in mocking some 45 yr old bloke who was frozen in time back before McFly were even born. They are such an easy target, it's untrue!)

I feel it is my duty, as a friend of the band (though they don't actually know me), to make as much fuss as possible about this issue. When they are surrounded by their own circle of advisors etc who immediately say "Do it! It's a great idea", they may not consider the down-side. I bet no-one said to Biff "Hey, you know what, this Destiny LP possibly isn't the best thing you have ever done". In fact I'd bet they told him it "were fooking fabulous". Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but maybe a stronger decision back then would have led to better days? What about certain erm, "hair products", which appeared back around "Rock the Nations"? Now I couldn't give a fuck, it made no difference to the music, nor to the live shows, but to an "outsider"? Classic Heavy Metal foolishness.
The thing is here, as has been pointed out, a big cock-up now could undo all the hard work done, and kill them off stone dead. I say again, it will NOT do them any favours. If I had any cash, I'd make or commision a documentary myself, then flog it to Channel 4 in a finished format - though I'm sure they wouldn't be interested in something made by a fan, someone who would put a positive slant on it.
They want a joke band, and the apparent association with Spinal Tap is far too tempting to ignore.
Fucking hell, I hate The Darkness for piss-taking, I don't need the greatest band in the world (in my eyes, at least), the mighty Saxon, turned into an even bigger joke.

I need a lie-down!

Thank you for your patience!

 

[saxon747rock]

Ive sent an email of to nigel glockler about this channel 4 doc thing asking if he has heard anything about it, and if he has seen also these threads on the board.

Looking forward to his reply should be quite interesting.

 

[Paxoman]

You make good strong valid points I have to say Assmaster.

 

[heavycelli]

Was at Bloodstock Festival in Derby last weekend & met up with SAXON's manager/booking agent. He told me that the South American Dates would be cancelled & that SAXON are having talks with Channnel 4 for making the Doc. on them. He also said that the DVD will be delayed slightly (and that i am in it somewhere. Could have been too stop me pestering him). However, he said that everything is happening because saxon are getting more recognition & publiciity which they deserve. Everything is happening for a positive reason. New album is mostly fininshed but because of Biff's high standards will probably be done again- the band love it though.

Just want to say that Thomas is a top man & thanks for talking.

Paxoman!!!! He remembers us from Berlin.

Very weird management..I feel sad for the South American Fans! The cancelling is announced much too late! It wasn't even mentioned on this official board..(And still isnt mentioned!) that's a shame and is stupid! OW! The DVD is delayed a bit.., well another time waiting..well mention it please on this board..with such management a band will never get recognition and only bad publicity. A bit more proces evaluation up there in the management..Of course the new album must be done again..thats good from Biff, no rushing Job! Saxon can work til december 2006 to end it the tour starts in 2007. And better advice: Don't even mention tour dates in America or South america, only publish the dates when it is sure for 100%! Thats only dissapointment everytime again. Stop this idiot thing! Please, please!

Well I look forward to the DVD...and the new album..but to be honest.. In stead of the DVD and new album...I would like to see a proper tour for the americans nord-east-south-west+ a huge russian tour.. And ..the musicians are not to blame, but its the managemant and overhead that sucks..At least an official statement from the management at least must be given...on this official board..and not in behind-chambers ...the judge has spoken... thank you!

 

[TheAssMaster]

You make good strong valid points I have to say Assmaster.

Thanks, and thanks to everyone who else who has shown concern! I bet Saxonmckenz is wishing he hadn't started this one!!!
Believe me, if I thought something like this project celebrated the band and it's achievements, and gave a little exposure to a wider audience, I would have the biggest hardon for it.
There are potential fans out there waiting to be converted, but this is too open to corruption from elements who have no vested interest apart from their own.

A lad who worked for me, raised on Coal Chamber and Machine Head and the like, used to rib me for my love of Saxon, and had no interest in listening to anything by them. The year they headlined Bloodstock, he was there, (I couldn't make it grrrrr), and that evening he texted me from the show and said "I can see why you like Saxon now, they are fucking awesome". Naturally, I thought he was taking the piss, me being a cynical sort of chap, but he replied that he was deadly serious and reeled off the setlist. I swear to you, I had tears in my eyes!
Since that day, when they play, he's there, banging his head with the best of them, he had Lionheart long before I pulled my finger out and bought it. No documentary could have done that, the only way was through the traditional "Blow them away at a live show" route, something we all know Saxon can do do in their sleep. They wipe their arse with so many of their contemporaries, let alone the upstarts that have succeeded them.

I fear there are no quick and easy ways for the band to get the full recognition they deserve, and which I believe has eluded them, if any. Live shows and good product are the hard way, but the genuine way, and they are such experts at this, it would be folly to risk all the years of slog for 45 minutes of Tap comparisons.

 

[guy@benest.wanadoo.co.uk]

I'm with AssMaster on this one.
I last saw Saxon when they were pretty much in their original line up and I'd like to remember them that way.
I'm not going to get into the politics of who split from who and why, as this is no ones business but the band's. However, I can see a "Rockumentary" dragging all this back up and no good will come from it.
I applaud all of you who still follow this band (they gave me many happy years in the 80's) and don't want to see them being degraded at the expense of "cheap TV".
I've come very close to seeing them again in the UK, but not sure if I could cope with seeing them as aging rockers.
Making a fly on the wall TV problem will end up as a piss take, why else would C4 be interested. They are not a cutting edge band, just a bunch of hard working guys who are still living the dream.

 

[Fingers]

I echo everyones sentiments, I think this could be a very very bad thing !

 

[CRUSADER747]

Well, im gonna have to go against the grain here, cos i think its quite a good idea. Im quite looking forward to it