Gays can't marry in Cali or whatever.

[AchrisK]

We should probably go ahead and ban divorce then, huh?

Well what do you think? Is divorce a good thing? Does any child of divorce think that divorce is a good thing? Of course, in this society people are so selfish and self-serving, and are unwilling to endure hard times and pain to keep commitments they made. People are so driven by their feelings and immediate selfish desires that they have made divorce seem like a good thing. But who would prefer divorce over having parents that kept their promise to love each other? Yes, promise to love each other. Love is not a feeling, it is an action. Yes, feelings accompany love, but to love is a choice people make. So, if parents would keep their promises, divorce could be reserved for more extreme situations.

To answer your question, no.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Well what do you think? Is divorce a good thing? Does any child of divorce think that divorce is a good thing? Of course, in this society people are so selfish and self-serving, and are unwilling to endure hard times and pain to keep commitments they made. People are so driven by their feelings and immediate selfish desires that they have made divorce seem like a good thing. But who would prefer divorce over having parents that kept their promise to love each other? Yes, promise to love each other. Love is not a feeling, it is an action. Yes, feelings accompany love, but to love is a choice people make. So, if parents would keep their promises, divorce could be reserved for more extreme situations.

To answer your question, no.

Why not? How is divorce any less harmful to the "traditional family" than same sex marriage?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

No it's not.

So you're telling me that people who oppose gay marriage aren't primarily religious? I'm almost certain I could find evidence against this, but I'll save that for later since I'm at work now.

No, I have acknowledged it. I have also clarified that "family" is not an exclusive term. Nobody should be excluded from it.

If you don't think homosexual marriage is a threat to the family model, then why do you care at all whether the definition of marriage allows for it? You sound like you have suddenly done a 180 from everything you argued up to this point.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.

This is not an argument, and you have not come anywhere near justifying this claim yet.

 

[AchrisK]

Who defines it that way? Can you honestly assert that every single religious institution in the country has a heterosexual definition of marriage? Even universalist churches? What you're talking about certainly goes against some religion's concept of marriage.

And once again, there's nothing to suggest that homosexual marriage is a threat to that. Please stop ignoring that point.

In that case, the point that nothing is being taken away has no bearing on our debate, since we've been discussion whether the rights they already have are sufficient.

So? There are also religious believers who consider white people to be sacred, and that all other races should be marginalised because they're "against God". You can consider whatever you want sacred, but requiring that everyone else view that thing as sacred as well is imposing your religion on others.

Not sure what your point is here. I don't see how the percentage of gay couples with kids has anything to do with whether they should be allowed to marry or not.

On this last one, I was answering your question with new information I had obtained.

Dude, way too often you are taking my answers to your specific questions and attacking them as new independent statements. You are also asking for answers I have already given, including some points I have succeeded. You are also taking my statements out of context. You cannot expect me to discuss this issue like that.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

Let it go man.

It was my first post in this thread, it was civil and informative and in depth, it provided a different viewpoint, and I'll attach to or let go of anything at my own discernment. plz to thanks for ur concernment.

 

[AchrisK]

Why not? How is divorce any less harmful to the "traditional family" than same sex marriage?

It's not. In fact it is probably much worse. But divorce isn't the problem. The problem is selfishness and a misunderstanding of love. You can't really legislate that.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

It's not.

Then why do you think it should be allowed and not same sex marriage?

 

[AchrisK]

Then why do you think it should be allowed and not same sex marriage?

Well, probably for things like wife beaters.

 

[Ben_t]

Honestly, I can't understand why people still believe that arguing with Achrisk will change anything. I thought the way he argued about religion and evolution for example would be enough to deter anyone from even attempting to logically exaplin anything to him.

 

[AchrisK]

You should try it sometime. It's fun!

 

[Ben_t]

You should try it sometime. It's fun!

My opinions are stated very well by Thoth, Evil and Dodens in this thread...and in way better English than what I could write.

If these posts didn't make you realise anything (as well as many posts by Caraith, and others in many other threads)...than what else can I hoep to accomplish?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

On this last one, I was answering your question with new information I had obtained.

Dude, way too often you are taking my answers to your specific questions and attacking them as new independent statements. You are also asking for answers I have already given, including some points I have succeeded. You are also taking my statements out of context. You cannot expect me to discuss this issue like that.

No, I kept asking you how homosexual marriage is a threat to the family model, and you kept responding in ways that didn't answer it until you finally conceded that it in fact doesn't threaten the family model. If justifying your claims is something I "cannot expect" you to handle, then there really is no point in debating this since you can just go back to your Bible and justify all your claims from there.

Now that you've (supposedly) acknowledged that homosexual marriage is not a threat to the family, why don't you explain why marriage should still be defined as between a man and a woman despite that?

 

[AchrisK]

I don't want to neglect your response. vihris-gari's replies kinda took my time earlier.

I appreciate your effort to clarify your views. Two things I would like to point out

1) Again, homosexuality in itself is not a lifestyle. The only thing that fundamentally differentiates a homosexual from a heterosexual is his or her sexual orientation. I understand that there is a "gay lifestyle", but this is by far not the norm.

I can appreciate that, and I do recall you making that point before (something about buttless pants?). I have all respect for people living their lives, being who they are. I think that activists from all sides of issues put people off. Not just activists, though. Maybe zealots. I would much rather hang out with a reasonable gay person than a Christian who shares my basic beliefs, but is so consumed by "issues" that they neglect just showing people basic love and respect.

2) There are an estimated 26,000 gay couples raising children around the country, and studies have shown that they not only show no significant increase or decrease in intelligence or development, but they also are no more likely to be homosexual or bisexual.

This is an interesting bit of information. I have updated my memory banks

3) I just thought it would be interesting to point out: not too long ago I read an article that explained how it will eventually be possible for a lesbian couple to have a baby of their own (obviously this only applies to women since men cannot bear children (yet zombie)). I forgot exactly how it's done, but they extract some type of something or other from one partner and inseminate the egg of the other partner.

That is pretty amazing. Is almost sounds like a cross between cloning and artificial insemination.

edit: Everyone also please note that V5 is clearly more of a dick than I am.

Yeah, itt I think that's pretty clear. Other than instances where you are doing it lightheartedly, I think I have noticed that your dickness level is directly proportional to the level of dickness with which you are faced.

 

[AchrisK]

My opinions are stated very well by Thoth, Evil and Dodens in this thread...and in way better English than what I could write.

If these posts didn't make you realise anything (as well as many posts by Caraith, and others in many other threads)...than what else can I hoep to accomplish?

Actually I believe I have realized some things. My thinking has been challenged and probably some preconceived notions of mine have been corrected. But I still believe in the traditional definition of marriage.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Actually I believe I have realized some things. My thinking has been challenged and probably some preconceived notions of mine have been corrected. But I still believe in the traditional definition of marriage.

Okay, but just realise that that belief is an advocacy for unequal rights for gays, and that you have not justified why society as a whole should observe a heterosexual definition of marriage.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Well, probably for things like wife beaters.

Well maybe people wouldn't be / get married to wife beaters if they knew they couldn't get divorced. Sort of like how allowing gay marriage would make people choose to be gay. Right? ... Right?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-142697

This should explain it extremely well for those who are still too thick headed to realize that marriage is a legal institution, not a religious one, when it comes to laws surrounding it.

 

[cookiecutter]

Good video

 

[AchrisK]

I can't believe these people in California can't accept the decision on this Prop 8. Voting is how we do things in America. They don't have to agree. They don't have to stop proposing changes. But they should accept the democratic process. I am not happy that Obama will be president, but I am not going to block the entrance to some City Hall until the mayor apologizes to me for voting for Obama.

 

[Omni]

Obama being elected isn't denying you equal rights with other Americans.