Getting bass to properly sit in the mix...

S

stringy_

Member
Jul 10, 2006
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For the life of me, I cannot get my bass to sit in my mix decently. The bass and DI box I'm using has a lot of action going on in the 250Hz range. I've put a EQ on the track to suck out a little bit of the 250HZ stuff with a high pass at about 80Hz or so, and with a compressor sitting on it with a ratio of around 4:1.

I don't like the 250Hz stuff, it's WAY too boomy for my tastes...I'm trying to emphasize something around 100Hz-150Hz range for my low end, but I cannot get it right. It's either way too much bass, or none.

What do you guys do? Anybody have any raw bass tracks I can take a listen to?
 
When I´m mixing a metal record I always think in guitar as my main sound and build other tracks arround them. A BD and Sn that cut between this heavy guitar sound and with the bass I always look for a good combination with the bd usually making it more rounded. I always forget the ambition of hearing every note from the bass player. I Always do the same test: I hear my mix and compare with refs cd if it´s works well, mute and unmute bass tracks if I can hardly advice that my mix loses the low body then the bass is working in its field. Remember that I´m always talking about Metal mixes. No Rock, hard rock... in these cases it´s other way.

If you wanna hear everything from the bass in a metal mix, probably you will smash your mix. You must notice it.
In metal, we usually record 5 or more bass tracks: An ampeg svt 2 or classic with ampeg 8x10 cab and Two mics: A 112 just in the box and a Neumman a little bit further. An avalon 737 line with comp and eq, An avalon D.I and a saturated track with sansamp psa1 (hardware).

In mix sometimes NOTHING, Sometimes used a multiband as flhctroll said and a eq cuttin some 250Hz as you said.

Hope this helps

best regards
 
Are the strings old and dead on the bass? Was it tracked with a pick or finger-style? The combination of fingers + dead strings can be hard to mix with metal as bass needs a lot of attack to cut through a metal mix. Dead strings are usually a symptom of a bass track ending up with a lot of low-mids in the 250-200k range. I never track without new or at least boiled strings on my bass, especially since I'm predominantly a finger-style player. "Live" strings translate a whole range of frequencies better therefore giving you options at mixdown.

As a rule of thumb, if I have to start eq-ing wildly to get bass to fit into a mix, I don't. I usually re-track it with a different tone. In a pinch, I'll compromise on the low end of the guitars or the kick drum if they're fighting for position in the mix. The combination of detuned guitars and bass is often an engineering nightmare and someone looses.

Alternatively, where there's a lot of low mids, I usually cut fairly dramatically around the 250k mark to get rid of the woolly/boomyness and compensate with a slight boost around the 110-125k range to give it some presence in the mix. You may not necessarily hear the bass that prominently, but you should at least feel it.
 
High-passing at 80Hz for bass is a bit drastic. Don't be afraid to slam the living shit out of the bass track. In a metal mix you want the bass to predominantly just lay there, not jump all over the place. Compress as much as you need to even it out.

Make sure it's not fighting with the kick and guitars. It can help to notch the bass out at the peak bass resonance frequency of the kick.

Just experiment. Listen to reference CDs and hear where the bass sits in relation to the other elements. Sometimes it's predominantly above the kick, other times it's predominantly sub frequencies. See what works for the material at hand.
 
kaomao said:
It's a lot that I don't hear that trick: "boiling strings"
Never tried myself, but people say that it's like having nearly fresh strings.
Eheeheh I can do that while cooking.
"Garçon I want a strings dish"
Click to expand...

it works great but for a short time...
Good advice is to put some sodium bicarbonate in the water...:heh:

Seriously!
 
blackbird said:
it works great but for a short time...
Good advice is to put some sodium bicarbonate in the water...:heh:

Seriously!
Click to expand...

Yep....good ol' Baking Soda cleans 'em up a treat. In the absence of that, any old household cleaner (preferrably something that removes grease from cookers or whatnot) mixed in with the water will do....

It'll give your strings some new life. They won't stay as bright as new strings, but it's good enough for at least a few hours/days of tracking to get you buy if your string budget isn't high.
 
I've tried the boiling trick a couple of times and it definitely works for some time, but I get the idea that it really wears your strings. In two cases my strings broke within a month after boiling them.
 
That can happen. I only boil mine when I've got a spare set waiting to go on, I'll milk whatever life's left in 'em and then swap 'em over. Bass strings are expensive, so I'll boil 'em maybe twice. 3 times at most.

Also, don't boil them too long....5-10 mins is plenty.
 
Thanks for the replys guys, after a long sleepless night of goofing around with my mix I think I've made some good progress.

There is a song on Decapitated's album The Negation, it's the second track but I can't remember the name, that has a bass and drum only break about 3/4ths through the song. That is the bass tone that I was referencing when setting up my bass, DI, and EQ. Goddamn that bass tone is the shit on that album....

I was sort of ignoring mixing 101 rules and trying to EQ the bass while it was solo'ed, which was my biggest problem. I concentrated on EQ'ing the bass while it was in the mix and it sounds way better now....but damn does it sound weird when the bass is solo'ed. It's wildly scooped, but it makes a nice hole for the guitars to sit in and I did a lot of work on the kick drum --> bass guitar interaction. I switched bass drum samples and everything seems to be jiving a lot better now.

Yeah my bass could use new strings...and and new pickups. I don't like the EMGs...maybe go for some passive Bartolinis? I like the P-Bass sound, but this is a Spector bass with soapbar EMG pickups. Maybe I should just buy a P-Bass.....
 
Spectors are usually cool, but it may depend on the model. Am surprised the EMG's aren't cutting the mustard though.....I'm not a P-Bass fan unless there's a bridge pickup as well as there's basically one sound in those instruments. It's a cool sound, but there's not much variation to be had.

I adore the Bartolinis in my jazz bass. Only dropped 'em in a couple of months ago, but it's the best bass-related purchase I've made in years.

I'd start with a new set of strings before you go dropping cash all over the place. DR Hi-Beams will brighten the dullest sounding bass.
 
sparkyness said:
Spectors are usually cool, but it may depend on the model. Am surprised the EMG's aren't cutting the mustard though.....I'm not a P-Bass fan unless there's a bridge pickup as well as there's basically one sound in those instruments. It's a cool sound, but there's not much variation to be had.

I adore the Bartolinis in my jazz bass. Only dropped 'em in a couple of months ago, but it's the best bass-related purchase I've made in years.

I'd start with a new set of strings before you go dropping cash all over the place. DR Hi-Beams will brighten the dullest sounding bass.
Click to expand...

I was actually just looking at DRs, lol! I like their guitar strings so I figure I'll give the bass strings a try.

Yeah, P-basses only have one sound, but the slightly overdriven downtuned P-Bass is probably my absolute favorite metal bass tone. For more melodic and non-metal lines I really like MM Stringrays...but I don't have the coin for those.

The EMGs in my Spector are the passive stock ones, not the higher-end active pickups...
 
One of the best tricks I have used was this...

1. clone d.i. track ( so you have to of tracks of the exact same thing)
2. on one of the tracks set up and e'q to HPF up to 700 and a LPF down to 2200 (give or take).
3. Slowly bring the filtered track up until you like what you hear.

This really helps to a get a bass heard a lot. Some what has the effect of new strings. I am pretty sure this was one of those gems that Andy told us about a long time ago. Also maybe add a little distortian to the the filtered track. This also allows is about the only way to get your bass heard on smaller speakers.
 
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