Good levels to mix to for mastering.

[3tuxedo]

Alright guys, so i'm super tired of straining to get my masters to a good volume. I'll be honest for a second and say I normally ONLY mix with my ears, which yeah is cool cause that's what everyone always says to do, but I don't have a specific peak I try to get my mixes to or something and I would really love if someone could explain how/why to do that, and also the whole headroom thing concerning mastering. Thanks in advance dudes.

 

[Habsburgs]

use google

 

[waltz mastering]

I'll be honest for a second and say I normally ONLY mix with my ears, which yeah is cool cause that's what everyone always says to do, but I don't have a specific peak I try to get my mixes to or something and I would really love if someone could explain how/why to do that, and also the whole headroom thing concerning mastering. Thanks in advance dudes.

As long as your not peaking/clipping any plugs or channels un-intentally you should be good. ..other than that there's really no ideal peak level to shoot for although some recommend peaking around -6 dBfs cause it suits decent level to an analog chain. 24-bit digital has a resolution of 144dB so there's plenty of leeway/headroom to be had, and digital gain and attenuation is about as clean as it gets.

 

[jackbraglia]

getting a loud master has less to do with the peaks and more to do with the frequency balance. each instrument should be sitting in its own tight little spot in the mix, without any masking going on.

 

[3tuxedo]

each instrument should be sitting in its own tight little spot in the mix, without any masking going on.

that is probably what is hurting me then. because i'm getting the mix to peak pretty high but it just isn't quite loud enough and maximizers make it sound so unbelievably squashed.

 

[Sethis]

Well, that also might be because you're trying to match modern metal mixes. And these are indeed unbelieavably squashed.

But watch out for the low end, that's what takes up most of your headroom. And remember to high-pass most things wherever needed.

 

[Alphanumeric]

Loud masters need a loud and high RMS mix, as I understand. Make sure everything is pretty squashed in the mix really, mostly with drums.

And for general levels well just make sure master doesn't clip, unless its for a desired effect SYL bass drop style haha. Most modern records are peaking at -0.1, and have an RMS around -6 to -3.

If your mix is not loud averagely, you can't force it in the master, otherwise its just going to be pumping and ruined as your limiter is fighting the peaks to bring everything else up. I assume that your snare is getting lost, your overheads washy, guitars and bass glued sounding at the expense of losing clarity.

 

[indecizo]

Loud masters need a loud and high RMS mix, as I understand. Make sure everything is pretty squashed in the mix really, mostly with drums.

And for general levels well just make sure master doesn't clip, unless its for a desired effect SYL bass drop style haha. Most modern records are peaking at -0.1, and have an RMS around -6 to -3.

If your mix is not loud averagely, you can't force it in the master, otherwise its just going to be pumping and ruined as your limiter is fighting the peaks to bring everything else up. I assume that your snare is getting lost, your overheads washy, guitars and bass glued sounding at the expense of losing clarity.

What kind of mixes are you referencing? I'd say the standard for metal today is arround -9 and -7.

 

[Sethis]

Most modern records are peaking at -0.1, and have an RMS around -6 to -3.

Actually the common RMS is much more than that, like around +4 to +7.

And I've seen quite a few songs peaking above 0.0

 

[jackbraglia]

Loud masters need a loud and high RMS mix, as I understand.

sorry, but this isn't true. in fact its the opposite. high RMS mixes actually prevent you from making them loud in mastering. really you shouldn't be looking at meters at all when mixing.

 

[3tuxedo]

Could you explain a bit? Not trying to challenge you, I just really don't understand.

 

[jackbraglia]

Could you explain a bit? Not trying to challenge you, I just really don't understand.

sure. heavy compression and limiting is inherently bad-sounding. so if every instrument in a mix is already compressed to death and your mix has very little dynamic range, compressing/limiting the mix even further will not do it any justice.

now thats not to say that an already loud mix can't be made louder. it just becomes increasingly difficult to make the mix sound good at that level. A high RMS mix leaves your mastering engineer with very little room to make improvements, and almost guarantees that you will receive a squashed-sounding master in return.

The best thing to do is just use your ears and don't look at meters. Its better to focus on making the mix sound good rather than just loud. Like I mentioned previously, the key to making sure your mix can be mastered loud is to make sure each instrument isn't battling one another for frequency space. Keep frequency masking to a minimum. And make sure your mix is sounding punchy and dynamic. Then you'll notice that everything can be brought up to a nice loud level without sounding squashed.

 

[jackbraglia]

oh and i don't mean to say that compressing individual instruments to death is always a bad thing (like bass for example). if thats the sound you want, then go for it. just make sure the result of summing all those tracks isn't a completely un-dynamic mix.

 

[egan.]

Actually the common RMS is much more than that, like around +4 to +7.

Maybe that's what your clients ask for but that isn't actually possible if you're looking at dBFS (which you are in your DAW). I'd unscientifically peg "normal" modern levels between -10dB and -6dB rms with anything over -5dB for a sustained period being something you should actively be embarrassed about (obviously IMHO). It's important to note that RMS numbers vary wildly on the method and meters you use to obtain them.
As far as peaking above zero, those are inter-sample peaks.

 

[Alphanumeric]

What kind of mixes are you referencing? I'd say the standard for metal today is arround -9 and -7.

Any Sumerian release, the new Boo album, TAIM's Hate.

Some may not agree this is metal they want to hear about but it is modern metal and generally perceived as using the most trendy production methods, I'm looking at the audiences as well as bands.

 

[Alphanumeric]

The best thing to do is just use your ears and don't look at meters.

This is the problem he is having in the first place that his ears along aren't giving him what he wants, he is asking for loud masters not good masters

For modern bands I've mentioned to see that a dynamic mix isn't the aim and a nasty squashy mix with no dynamics is a hallmark of the sound these days. Kids for whatever reason don't want to listen to punchy, dynamic mixes they want constantly loud heavily limited and poorly sonic masters. Of course technically a mix that's been mastered from a dynamic mix will be louder but to the kids with earbuds a distorted midrange with a high RMS is always going to be psychoacoustically louder, as the bass is sacrificed wheras with masters that have been mixed musically are always going to have that big low end that eats up real volume, however the extremely present mids kids are used to now sounds louder to them.

Constantly fretting over his Limiters and levels works for Pensado, suggesting to only ever trust your ears over never looking at a reading is a common and vague soundbite won't help.

 

[jackbraglia]

This is the problem he is having in the first place that his ears along aren't giving him what he wants, he is asking for loud masters not good masters

right, and my point is that meters won't help him get a louder mix/master

Of course technically a mix that's been mastered from a dynamic mix will be louder

so we're in agreement

Constantly fretting over his Limiters and levels works for Pensado, suggesting to only ever trust your ears over never looking at a reading is a common and vague soundbite won't help.

I think its safe to say that dave does great mixes because of his ears and not because of his limiters and levels...

 

[Alphanumeric]

I think its safe to say that dave does great mixes because of his ears and not because of his limiters and levels...

Yeah haha but if we look at any of his vocal or drum videos we see how far he goes and obsesses with his limiters and especially dynamic eq'ing.

 

[Sethis]

As far as peaking above zero, those are inter-sample peaks.

Cool, now that is something I had never heard before.

Maybe that's what your clients ask for but that isn't actually possible if you're looking at dBFS (which you are in your DAW). I'd unscientifically peg "normal" modern levels between -10dB and -6dB rms with anything over -5dB for a sustained period being something you should actively be embarrassed about (obviously IMHO). It's important to note that RMS numbers vary wildly on the method and meters you use to obtain them.

I don't know, maybe I'm looking at the wrong meters in my DAW? I was almost sure that I was checking RMS levels. Or perhaps there is some kind of "bug" like those peaks you say?