Government Shutdown
- Thread starter bryan_kilco
- Start date
Belac
Flesh To Steel
Hey man yeah we never met in person but I know your work. Im in the band Nepenthe in windsor but weve been low profile for a while, recording process was pretty unprofessional. Im also the vocalist for a doom metal band called Sleepwalkers which was posted on this board a while back, ypu can look nepenthe up on facebook to find links to both. Thought of checking your studio for an upcoming project actually. Sorry back on topic
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Wait what? You can't really believe what you are saying can you?
On topic: This blame the GOP that Obozo started isn't getting anything done or accomplished and it is no "entirely the GOP's fault". If anyone who has been paying attention to the ACA it costs more, has allowed employers to kill the 40 hour work week to get away with not needing to give health benefits and the fine to companies that provide no benefits with full time jobs is 1/6th that to pay for a healthcare package so most are taking the fine and saying...get Obozocare. The cost of health benefits have gone up and the ACA still hasn't guaranteed that everyone will get healthcare.
So amidst a looming debt ceiling the GOP wasn't just going to let the entirely of Obozocare passed without some amendments, it doesn't matter what those amendments are, what is important to know is that BOTH parties refused to compromised, even though the GOP brought it up first, the fact of the matter is both parties refused compromised, its just the Democrats liked the idea of blaming the shutdown on the GOP's refusal to compromise. At the end of the day the democrats were just as unwilling to compromise.
The bigger issue is the government debt. The reality is the US debt exceeds the entire world GDP. The US government spends more money than it receives but refuses a cut spending. You can't spend yourself into prosperity and new unbridled healthcare spending really isn't going to help the situation.
At the end of the day BOTH parties are acting like a bunch of spoiled 3 year olds.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
He's Dead, Jim
Member
holy christ. this is even worse than the Syria thread. I'm getting out of here while I still can.
Funny you mention this. I have a friend that went on a vacation to Yosemite this last week. It's closed now and he made it from here to Vegas already. Pretty sure they're just gonna stay there or do something else on short notice.
I think it just shows how petty and ridiculous politicians can be.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Belac
Flesh To Steel
Can't argue with that. I was typing on my phone and I probably could have been more in depth. And unfortunately that shit did happen, mostly during last election cycle over the tax debate. I'm not saying it's like their only mission to do all that, but the GOP was far more interested in cutting those things than adding any kind of tax, they wanted to cut cut cut instead of spending money to fix infrastructure and create jobs. Not to mention the shit ton of social programs they filibustered.
But to be fair I rail on republicans more than democrats because they just do so many crazy things that are hard to ignore. I only started following politics in the last few years and at the start I was pretty much in the middle, but the more I hear the more I have to lean democrat. Maybe it's the Canadian in me but they just seem more sensible. The right is really really against going socialist like Northern Europe but it's a model that has been proven to work very well.
Also I should note I'm not attacking the citizens, just the politicians that are not representing what the people want, but rather are trying to appease a political ideal.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
This is what I don't understand about republicans. They found themselves on Christian values yet when push comes to shove they are more concerned about money than the lives of others.
I don't mind people worshiping money and stepping on the health of fellow countrymen. But what bothers me is that these same people run around praising the lord and then killing people over issues like abortion and queer marriage, not to mention promoting wars for oil. The hypocrisy is what kills me.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
1. Stop calling it Obozocare. I don't give a shit what you think about the law - it's called the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare. Calling it "Obozocare" and him "Obozo" just makes you sound like a god damn idiot and makes it frustrating to read. Imagine replacing every occurrence of Sneap's name with the phrase "Andy Snooperpooper" - regardless of what you think of the guys mixes, it's just frustrating and childish. You're above that, or at least I'd hope to think you are.
2. You're leaving out one huge important fact - ACA is a fucking law. It passed both House and Senate, was signed into law by POTUS, deemed constitutional by SCOTUS, and was then a central part of Obama's 2012 campaign. You know, the campaign for the re-election which he won.
3. If you're trying to use the "uneducated folk" thing as a diss towards me... Good luck. I spent the last four years of my life getting a degree in this exact topic (political economics) from one of the best public institutions in the country. I'm not going to speak down to you because you don't have a similar background, but I am going to scrutinize your opinions and statements a bit more harshly than if you did.
This specific shutdown is 100% the fault of the House GOP. Blaming Democrats, Obama, anyone else is just incorrect and misleading. A law was passed. They didn't like it. They held the government hostage and when their counterparts on the left wouldn't budge they stuck to their guns.
The House GOP has a problem with specifics of the ACA. They introduced bills to specifically address those grievances (41 times in fact). 41 times they tried and 41 times they failed to amend a law. They couldn't get their way by playing by the rules (read: the Constitution), so they threw a temper tantrum and shut down the government. They did this in 1995/1996 with Gingrich's "back of the plane" freakout, too.
If you want to talk about our national debt or the debt ceiling, great - that's an entirely different discussion, but it's not one we're having here.
For what it's worth, Belac hit the nail on the head in post #3.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
^Jeff for some reason I thought you were a right winger. Guess not! Anyway, big +1 to your post, especially #2.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I am further left than US elections will allow me to demonstrate via voting, even in the "liberal bastion" that is California.
Belac
Flesh To Steel
Yeah he said it with much more eloquence than I could have and I agree with it 100%.
I was wondering where you stood as well when you said there was misinformation, I thought you might start going after the affordable care act or something you heard of Fox News. I kind of just threw up a lot of points at once because I was trying to quickly send it on my phone at work
. Definitely could have used better wording/specifics but it lead to your much better post so that works for me.
I was wondering where you stood as well when you said there was misinformation, I thought you might start going after the affordable care act or something you heard of Fox News. I kind of just threw up a lot of points at once because I was trying to quickly send it on my phone at work
. Definitely could have used better wording/specifics but it lead to your much better post so that works for me.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I originally wasn't going to get involved in this discussion but as far as I'm concerned it's EXTREMELY cut/dry. The government shutdown is the result of House GOP members throwing a tantrum because they don't like a law. That's it.
My only issue with the ACA is that it's not single-payer, universal health care. It's a decent step in the right direction, but it does reinforce a broken system for the time being (albeit with some great changes). Can anyone honestly tell me what's bad about allowing children to stay on their parents insurance until 26, preventing insurers from denying people based on pre-existing conditions, or requiring that insurers spend at least 80% of the money they take in on actual health care?
My only issue with the ACA is that it's not single-payer, universal health care. It's a decent step in the right direction, but it does reinforce a broken system for the time being (albeit with some great changes). Can anyone honestly tell me what's bad about allowing children to stay on their parents insurance until 26, preventing insurers from denying people based on pre-existing conditions, or requiring that insurers spend at least 80% of the money they take in on actual health care?
Belac
Flesh To Steel
Exactly. I actually heard that California is already taking steps towards single-payer as well as Vermont, although I don't know how far it has gotten. I think once people actually get to see the law in effect it's going to make the GOP look really bad which is why they are trying so hard to get it out. It doesn't look good when your party puts all it's effort into destroying something that turns out to be a big success. Oh well, I just hope the shutdown isn't too long and they realize they are severely damaging their chances in 2016 if they don't stop trying to crush these social improvements.
egan.
daylightdies.com
Pretending that senate democrats and house republicans are being equally obstinate ignores the fact that the Boehner refused to allow a vote on the senate bill.
So yeah, it is fair to blame republicans because their leader refused to allow a vote on a clean spending bill because he knew it would pass.
I'm not a huge fan of the ACA but the way to fix it is to fix it. Not to hold the country hostage at every turn in an attempt to defund legislation you don't like.
So yeah, it is fair to blame republicans because their leader refused to allow a vote on a clean spending bill because he knew it would pass.
I'm not a huge fan of the ACA but the way to fix it is to fix it. Not to hold the country hostage at every turn in an attempt to defund legislation you don't like.
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