Grind Core... Where to start?!

[NSGUITAR]

I'm scheduled to recording this band quite soon:

http://www.myspace.com/senderreceiver


What sort of stuff would you guys do for this kind of music when it comes to mixing/tone/ect?!?!

I'm not so sure steven slate drums can cover this genre as well as I'd like.. haha.. It'll be quite the experiment!

 

[GarethSE]

Put them in a tiny room together with shitty, barely working amps, a drum kit with fucked heads and tuning and cracked cymbals and a POS PA.
Turn everything up to 10, hit record, done.

The fact you even mentioned slate drums in a topic about grind production depresses me.
It's fucking GRIND. Let them dial in the tones, let them tune their shit, whatever. It'll probably sound nasty, but it's GRINDDDDD
Who cares about making it sound nice?

Your homework: Spend the next week listening to Napalm Death - Scum

 

[muckypup1]

Put them in a tiny room together with shitty, barely working amps, a drum kit with fucked heads and tuning and cracked cymbals and a POS PA.
Turn everything up to 10, hit record, done.

The fact you even mentioned slate drums in a topic about grind production depresses me.
It's fucking GRIND. Let them dial in the tones, let them tune their shit, whatever. It'll probably sound nasty, but it's GRINDDDDD
Who cares about making it sound nice?

Your homework: Spend the next week listening to Napalm Death - Scum

All I can say is +fucking 1, Scum is where this shit is at

 

[NSGUITAR]

Put them in a tiny room together with shitty, barely working amps, a drum kit with fucked heads and tuning and cracked cymbals and a POS PA.
Turn everything up to 10, hit record, done.

The fact you even mentioned slate drums in a topic about grind production depresses me.
It's fucking GRIND. Let them dial in the tones, let them tune their shit, whatever. It'll probably sound nasty, but it's GRINDDDDD
Who cares about making it sound nice?

Your homework: Spend the next week listening to Napalm Death - Scum

Haha. Very true. I used to fucking love Napalm Death.. Well, I suppose I still do, but I suppose you're quite right on all you just said. I'll go all organic on this shit!

 

[muckypup1]

Haha. Very true. I used to fucking love Napalm Death.. Well, I suppose I still do, but I suppose you're quite right on all you just said. I'll go all organic on this shit!

Get rid of those slate samples then

 

[NSGUITAR]

Get rid of those slate samples then

Will do. I'll just stick with all real stuff.. Would you guys worry about a click track and such?

 

[muckypup1]

Will do. I'll just stick with all real stuff.. Would you guys worry about a click track and such?

I personally wouldn't bother with a click track if you are going for a raw and filthy grind sound, if you want things a bit tighter though and more polished, a click track is the way to go

 

[Fragle]

keep those slate samples - you surely want to replace the kick don't you?
just because it's grind it doesn't mean that you can't make out shit.
i'd probably try and keep most of the natural drum sound except for the kick, record guitar DIs and reamp them later (reamping doesn't mean polished tone you know. given that it's indeed supposed to sound somewhat filthy you could probably get away with ampsims anyways), record bass DI and reamp it to get a distorted bass sound, use a handheld mic (sm58 i'd figure) and make sure the attitude's right when tracking vox, and don't overcompress when mixing it.
double track the guitars, one player per side if it's a 2 guitar band.....and make sure everyone plays with attitude. i guess that's the most important point.

 

[GarethSE]

Did Napalm Death need a click track? No.
Did Cephalic Carnage need a click track? No.
Did Anal Cunt need a click track? No.

I'm sure they could all play to one if they so desired, but is there any reason to? Nah not really.
Grind is a genre that thrives on passion and ferocity, the overpowering fury of THE MOMENT.
Like I said, let them dial in their shit, throw some mics up real quick, do a quick soundcheck then just let them go at it, tell them to go fucking crazy. It's your job to make sure the tape is rolling to capture that, nothing more.

 

[P-E]

Anal Cunt.
fuck yea.
\m/

 

[GarethSE]

keep those slate samples - you surely want to replace the kick don't you?
just because it's grind it doesn't mean that you can't make out shit.
i'd probably try and keep most of the natural drum sound except for the kick, record guitar DIs and reamp them later (reamping doesn't mean polished tone you know. given that it's indeed supposed to sound somewhat filthy you could probably get away with ampsims anyways), record bass DI and reamp it to get a distorted bass sound, use a handheld mic (sm58 i'd figure) and make sure the attitude's right when tracking vox, and don't overcompress when mixing it.
double track the guitars, one player per side if it's a 2 guitar band.....and make sure everyone plays with attitude. i guess that's the most important point.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

What is this fucking obsession with pushing buttons and being overly technical about shit?
This approach would work for a modern polished production, and is totally valid, but for a grind band? Please...
Don't put ideas in his fucking head, jesus

 

[DanLights]

yeah I think the most important part is to make sure everyone's in the "feeling" when recording, gotta get that attitude printed on those tracks. If you can mic real amps (even if they're not good and an ampsim could sound better) I would prefer that way, sure some amp sims can sound really nice for this, but the filthyness of the real thing kinda oozes out more when your "mic'ing the moment". I would definitely use a click track, it's still human playing so it's not gonna sound machine-like just by following a steady tempo. Yeah and try to reamp the bass through some good distorsion, even some vsts might be perfect for it, and I would also keep the clean bass for the low end, to keep it all deep and heavy

 

[GarethSE]

10 Watt practice amp and a 57 all the way

 

[Fragle]

to be honest, you sound like a stubborn elitist, you know that?

in the end, it comes down to what the band wants. if it's a super raw production, then your way is probably fine (although they could as well just set up a mic in their rehearsal room and hit record then, but i digress....), but if they want to sound like a band, i'd do it as i wrote above.
even albums that weren't done the "usual" way (drums>guitars>bass>vox) but everyone playing at the same time probably had a great deal of seperation going on. just can't just throw up a few mics with everyone in the same room blasting at full volume and expect a result that you can actually mix.

 

[The StabbinCabin]

Fuck I love this band- I'm jealous man. I agree with Gareth to some extent- steer away from slate. If you're going to do any reinforcing, sample the dudes own kit with room mics and use those. I would want to record vocals in a hallway of some sort even along with a close mic. Maybe even run some things through a shitty tape deck if you have one at hand.

Check out See You Next Tuesday's album "Intervals", Rise Of Caligula and Daughters

I honestly don't think any grind band should be approached in a different way than this

Do a good job with this band please, that would rule so much- and good luck dude

 

[NSGUITAR]

Fuck I love this band- I'm jealous man. I agree with Gareth to some extent- steer away from slate. If you're going to do any reinforcing, sample the dudes own kit with room mics and use those. I would want to record vocals in a hallway of some sort even along with a close mic. Maybe even run some things through a shitty tape deck if you have one at hand.

Check out See You Next Tuesday's album "Intervals", Rise Of Caligula and Daughters

I honestly don't think any grind band should be approached in a different way than this

Do a good job with this band please, that would rule so much- and good luck dude

Hehe I played in See you next tuesday for a day! Back when they were just a little local band. Fucking love them.


I'll do this stuff live then. =)


Do you guys know if it's possible to run two Profire 2626's at once on the same computer? I only have one, but have the money for a second.. And obviously 8 tracks won't be enough to record a full band live.

 

[GarethSE]

Stubborn? Yes. Elitist? No.
We just happen to have polar opposite viewpoints on this sort of thing.

But I'm gonna go more "seriousface" now, when I say 10 watt practice amp and a 57, I'm not being ENTIRELY serious, for what it's worth. Actually, okay, maybe I am.. But still.

Look, throw up enough mics in enough places to really give yourself some options in the mix.
You COULD use amp sims and re-amping, but is there a need to with a band that has this kind of aesthetic? Think really hard about it, like is there a genuinely good reason to go that route aside from some sort of strange desire to have to be pushing buttons and basically playing the engineer?
For this band, I really don't think there is, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

People who listen to this music aren't about to start caring if the guitars a little unclear in the mids or if there's a missed snare hit or if the recording sounds generally disgusting, infact, they're likely to enjoy it MORE because of these flaws.
As ENGINEERS, we are going to get caught up in the details, we're going to re-amp the bass DI through an amp sim to get a slightly different grit, because we CAN, because the technology that allows us to is available.
As LISTENERS, you need to pay more attention to the bigger picture, to the mood and atmosphere, to the vibes and energies. Getting caught up in the nitty gritty details only serves to be MORE destructive when it comes to music that is based predominantly around rawness and human flaws.

Yeah, you may botch the kick micing and get a weird resonance and you may get the desire to "fix" it, but maybe that botched kick micing is just what the album calls for? Maybe it was meant to happen that way? Maybe it was meant to sound like that?

At the end of the day, nsguitar is gonna record these guys and do it his way, not my way or your way or andy sneaps way or napalm death's way, but his way, all any of us that are posting in this topic are doing is offering up our viewpoints on how we would approach this project, so fuck it?

 

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

+1 to everything Gareth said. Usually, mentioning anything about a click track, or compression, or reamping to a grind band usually just makes them think that you're a nerd and/or a poser and they won't trust you. Keep it raw!

 

[timislegend]

yeah... this band seems to like bands such as sawtooth grin/ed gein etc.

so. one would assume that they want their music to be engineered as such.

psyopus is a great listen as far as "hyper-produced" grind.


also, like @The StabbinCabin pointed out *daughters is a well engineered sound that could be examined.


i also agree with gareth about the "fashion" of grind... the low production value is what lends to the aggressive & avant-garde.



but it doesn't have to be that way... *think john zorn's "punk china doll." (the production is superb and the art is left uncompromised).


a lot of "grind" bands use low production values just to hide the fact that they are awful musicians ...(NOT ALL ...but a lot).


it's in my assessment and opinion that there should be more detail... like with bands such as *the locust, tera melos, destroy all operating systems etc.


it was my beautiful jewish mother that always told/asked me ...(when i had long hair) ..."why must you cover that shana punim with awful hair?!?!"


i guess i'm trying to say the same thing?

 

[The StabbinCabin]

I know a few guys that got 2 Presonus Firepods and would daisychain those. Couldn't you essentially do the same thing? Lightpipe...? lol get a digimax or something-

But I'm serious though dude check out Rise Of Caligula



they have pictures of their sessions, you could use that as reference