Grind Core... Where to start?!

GarethSE said:
At the end of the day, nsguitar is gonna record these guys and do it his way, not my way or your way or andy sneaps way or napalm death's way, but his way, all any of us that are posting in this topic are doing is offering up our viewpoints on how we would approach this project, so fuck it?
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Wait, I'm confused.... When did I ever go against you and say I won't do it the way you've just explained?
 
Grind... click?... those don't go together.

Don't rely on samples, the more natural the better. At the most I'd say blend a sample in the kick just a little for consistent low end on the kick but that's about it. Definitely not on snare!
 
GarethSE said:
Stubborn? Yes. Elitist? No.
We just happen to have polar opposite viewpoints on this sort of thing.

But I'm gonna go more "seriousface" now, when I say 10 watt practice amp and a 57, I'm not being ENTIRELY serious, for what it's worth. Actually, okay, maybe I am.. But still.

Look, throw up enough mics in enough places to really give yourself some options in the mix.
You COULD use amp sims and re-amping, but is there a need to with a band that has this kind of aesthetic? Think really hard about it, like is there a genuinely good reason to go that route aside from some sort of strange desire to have to be pushing buttons and basically playing the engineer?
For this band, I really don't think there is, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

People who listen to this music aren't about to start caring if the guitars a little unclear in the mids or if there's a missed snare hit or if the recording sounds generally disgusting, infact, they're likely to enjoy it MORE because of these flaws.
As ENGINEERS, we are going to get caught up in the details, we're going to re-amp the bass DI through an amp sim to get a slightly different grit, because we CAN, because the technology that allows us to is available.
As LISTENERS, you need to pay more attention to the bigger picture, to the mood and atmosphere, to the vibes and energies. Getting caught up in the nitty gritty details only serves to be MORE destructive when it comes to music that is based predominantly around rawness and human flaws.

Yeah, you may botch the kick micing and get a weird resonance and you may get the desire to "fix" it, but maybe that botched kick micing is just what the album calls for? Maybe it was meant to happen that way? Maybe it was meant to sound like that?

At the end of the day, nsguitar is gonna record these guys and do it his way, not my way or your way or andy sneaps way or napalm death's way, but his way, all any of us that are posting in this topic are doing is offering up our viewpoints on how we would approach this project, so fuck it?
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now we're talking....but i still think you got me wrong.

i don't have a "desire" to "push buttons". all of my points were made just for practical reasons.

let's take the bass DI thing as an example. not only is it very easy to record bass this way, but it also gives you the opportunity to tweak a distorted sound into the mix that FITS - and fitting doesn't necessarily mean clearer, it could very well be that the original tone was just too polite, and you think it should sound more dirty. just reamp the DI and make it sound nasty.

as for the guitars, i said you can probably get away with amsims as these are naturally more undefined as a real amp, unless you go apeshit with the post processing (basically, let's not open that can of worms here). so, unless they have a really unique guitar setup that's a major part of their sound, there's no harm done in recording DIs.
for example, i did a grind band once and tracked them monitoring with pod farms rectifier ampsim. fwiw, they really enjoyed that tracking sound. when i started to mix this stuff i reamped through a 5150 boosted with a metal zone (now that's ghetto hehe) and blended in some sansamp psa-1 goodness. they literally started touching themselves over that final guitar tone - they told me i basically nailed the vibe of their reference cds, which included maruta and magrudergrind. live these guys are using original pods through the input of a HK warp 7, and if i recorded that sound while tracking there's no way in hell i could have matched that sound to fit their expectations.

it still amazes me that even on this forum some people think that modern studio techniques such as reamping make for a less vibey record....
 
Gareth, are you suggesting to record it live? as in all members playing at the same time? Sure, you could do the Maiden approach (I call it that way but I'm sure they're not the only band to do that), but it would require a huge recording place with FAIRLY isolated rooms for the different sources (cabs, drums, etc) plus lots of room mics and stuff, and a good room etc. I'm with fragle on this one, I think some people need to distinguish between a "raw", "vibey", "dirty" production and just plain shit production. might as well plug a metalzone with a 1/8" converter into the mic in of a pc and hit record on a cracked copy of adobe audition, why would they need a producer for that?
 
The StabbinCabin said:
I know a few guys that got 2 Presonus Firepods and would daisychain those. Couldn't you essentially do the same thing? Lightpipe...? lol get a digimax or something-

But I'm serious though dude check out Rise Of Caligula

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKdZf_QtuU

they have pictures of their sessions, you could use that as reference
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Is that considered grind?

And that is a pretty clean but raw recording...I must have no clue what grind is, because that to me is so NOT grind.
 
I play in a grindcore band, so I can tell you my opinion, but there is NO rules in Grind

Avoid using guitar amp sim witch aren't sound good in fast and dense riffs, prefer Tubes + V30 + MICs (standard 57 or 421 or vintage or 3)
If you have a BOSS HM-2, use it ;)
quad track

Mix a big bottom bass and big distored bass.

Make the Drums as percussives you can!

here is in my opinion the best sound for grindcore :


Sorry for my poor english, good luck & have fun :)
 
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i am gonna go agianst the grain, if you wana use slate do it, who the fuck cares what they say, find some ringy ass snare samples and compress the fuck out of it,

its not grind core but this mix would be perfect for that band

 
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Fuck i love that rotten sound album sounds fantastic, although i wouldnt consider them a very raw band anymore because of that album, though it sounds fuckin fantastic i do prefer a bit rougher production for grind, shits my favourite genre has been for a while, fuckin some of my favourite grind productions have to be nasums very early eps, especially the first one "blind world"

and top of my list is Pig destroyers "terrifier" fantstic,

my advice would be to do it raw and natural as possible going on how the band sound, put up dividers between the drums and amps at least to kill some bleed, with some of the seemingly random sweeps, and spantaneous playing the band sound like they are pulling out, you might not even be able to dual or quad if they have no idea how to do what they just did again :lol: , in which case be as best prepared to capture that spontaneity as best you can so if its magic you can use it,

my 2 cents
 


That sounds pretty much like what I'm looking for in grindcore. This CD is one of my favorites btw.
 
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nialldoran said:
my advice would be to do it raw and natural as possible going on how the band sound, put up dividers between the drums and amps at least to kill some bleed, with some of the seemingly random sweeps, and spantaneous playing the band sound like they are pulling out, you might not even be able to dual or quad if they have no idea how to do what they just did again :lol: , in which case be as best prepared to capture that spontaneity as best you can so if its magic you can use it,

my 2 cents
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so you're suggesting mono guitars because the band might not even have real riffs for their songs?
guess you got grindcore wrong then.
 
no there are obviously riffs in grindcore, i love grindcore some of the best riffs in the businsess imho,

im just saying that some of the riffs in the band in question sound very spontaneous and eratic, it might be like they would slightly vary in every performance, i could be completely wrong if they can play some of those riffs and sweeps the exact same time twice then by all means dual or quad,

ive heard some amazingly technically playing that was obviously quad tracked, but i just cant imagine a raw grind band such as this getting down to that mechanical timing, perfect playing more than twice in a row, especially if they are tracked without a click,

hope that makes a bit more sense :err:
 
But honestly, there are no rules to this. Get in touch with the band ask them what they are looking for. Don't reject taking DIs or using click tracks for the sake of dubious paradigms. That's just stupid and will only make life harder at your end. After tracking you can still decide how much editing you're going to do and how much of the original tones you're going to keep.

AxCx are hardly a musical benchmark in the grind sector and we all know for what reasons they got mildly popular. And Napalm Death's "Scum" doesn't sound like a raw and cheap budget recording for some mysterious artistic master-plan but rather the simple fact that they hadn't much of a budget to work with and the initial recordings were only supposed to be part of a split record, not their debut album.

And much like Carcass, Napalm Death embraced bigger budget and better technology as they became available.

It's the same with the Black Metal sound dogma, just way to much hypocrisy involved.
 
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