Guitar-ego!

[Heabow]

Hi everyone!

I'm just finishing a mix that I'm pretty happy with. Really. The client is a guitarist, not a band. Call it a one-man band. The guy knows nothing at all mixing wise and as a guitarist he's got a big ego. Everything is ok for him except the fact that he wants to hear his guitar solos the same way that as if the track was soloed! He doesn't listen to the whole picture but his performance only. Even if the voices go down on a chorus to let the guitar shine (AWESOME singer I precise). The solos are WAY too loud and the result is a ruined mix.

I don't want to be a dictator but I don't want my mix to be ruined. I'm into two ways of doin':
- allright, its his music after all. So if he's happy like that, I don't mind.
- or it's MY mix and I know what I do. He's gotta learn to like it as I want it to sound.

What would you do?

 

[Manicompression]

well if the vocalist is good as you say, maybe invite them to the mix session and see if guitar boy relaxes a bit with the me me me approach. If not make him happy while he's there and then turn it all down a decibal or two and call it a compromise. It is his project, but it is your work in a small way so i would do your best to reach a compromise. Worst case, you plead your case about bringing all the shredding down a notch and he doesnt budge. Just give him what he thinks he wants. In that Jens Bogren thread he talks about how he gave Opeth the drumsound they thought they wanted against his better instincts. Happens all the time in more high stakes situations than ours.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Usually happens to me when I mess up the higher mid content of the solo and the backing tracks. Most of us have experienced ears thus we can hear better regardless of minor clashes.

My advice to you is to post a clip to have a secondary opinion.

 

[viralz]

Simple...

Just make him listen to both options, your way or his way. Then let him decide, its his money after all.

 

[Trevoire520]

Ask what this influences are, pull up one of their tracks on spotify and show him how the guitar sits in the mix but is still clearly audible. Then compare his version of the mix and hopefully he'll see how bad it sounds.

 

[Chew]

The above is decent advice.

It may be due to the guy not being used to your monitors also... you know your monitors and that the guitar is at the right level in them, he might be used to his very middly crappy home stereo where the guitar solo's seem to poke out more.

I had a band in yesterday that were under the impression the vocals where too quiet. I pulled up one of the reference tracks they had told me to base the mix on and we where all in agreement that the vocals where actually at the right level.

 

[Heabow]

Thanks to you all. Really appreciated.

The things are that it's clearly a problem of ego AND listening ability (don't how to say). For example, when he came to the studio he just wanted to hear the solo parts, not the entire song (first time he was listening to the songs in the studio) - which is an aberration for me. We all know how it's important to get the whole picture and know what the song deserves. I told him but after the two first songs, I saw that he didn't give a shit of everything except his solos... It's an unexperienced guy and although I argue about how well the solo sits in the mix, he didn't listen to me.

He said he knows if he hears the guitars or not (I know he actually hears pretty well but not as if he'd play alone of course And he took some examples of songs/album he likes. The difference is that when he listen to HIS music and to HIS performance, he reacts totally in a different way - without realizing it! So impossible to discuss.

Pretty challenging situation because the mix isn't good as it is now, really. I mean the sound is good, everything sits well imo but when the solo comes up, the mix is ruined. If I turn down a little the solos - while keeping them very prominent - he will ask me to turn 'em up again. For sure. And honestly I don't want to argue anymore with someone who thinks he knows more about mixing than me (no self-congratulation, just reality).

 

[StefTD]

what about telling him something like "yeah man, I changed the mix so the leads sound very well and
are pretty audible on almost every system, turned out really well, check it out how they cut through
the mix" while you just turned them down a bit and put a few more mids on them or something like that.

Lying is part of the business imho

 

[Chew]

drummers are usually the worst.

"can you solo the drums please"....

"why do you wanna hear what the drums sound like on there own"

"coz thats all thats important"

hahahahaha

 

[Heabow]

Lying is part of the business imho

Hehe, yeah I agree with this and that's what I'll probably do a bit to save the final product

Thanks everyone!

 

[CubanDude]

Just do the old trick, always works. Make him sit next to you and then say "OK, I'm gonna bring the guitars up and you just say STOP when you think it's good", then grab a fader which has no function at all, bring it up slowly and wait for the "STOP"

 

[Heabow]

Just do the old trick, always works. Make him sit next to you and then say "OK, I'm gonna bring the guitars up and you just say STOP when you think it's good", then grab a fader which has no function at all, bring it up slowly and wait for the "STOP"

Doesn't work with someone that wants at least +10db on every guitar solo track

 

[Fox Mulder]

I feel so lucky hearing about all your woes.

But then again, I hardly work. And when I work I charge a bomb. I'm from Bangladesh so not too many metal studios around here

My 2cents,
I act formal, stay reserved. That way I notice the interactions stay civil.
I wouldn't even share smokes with the client.

 

[Skaldir]

Maybe you could ask him if he can show you any other production that has a similar lead guitar mix to what he wants.
And if that has never been done before its because it sucks ass

 

[006]

Fuck musicians.

 

[if6was9]

The reference idea is a good one, make sure you have the reference track play at the same volume ( or even a little quiter!) as yours so they don't go "louder is better".

I've experienced things like this before and it may be best to have the whole band come in and discuss it. I've had situations where 2 guys in a band were contacting me giving me conflicting mix revisons. I told them I would only make changes if the whole band agreed on it and that I would not accept text messages from individual members, only mails agreed upon by the band.

Sometimes also bands just don't know what sounds good, thats why they have you working with them. Your job is to deliver an end product that sounds good. In some situations you have to put your foot down and say no, THIS is the best way for it to sound and I won't do it your way. Doesn't happen often but there have been a handful of times where I've had to do this and the band always agrees with me once the mix is done.

 

[Heabow]

Yeah when I know it sounds better following my way it's difficult to make changes that are bad. Painful to argue with bands in these cases. It seems the situation is much better now for me tho. It's cool to know that some of you have to deal sometimes with this kind of stuff hehe.