Hey American Homophobes

[SocialNumb]

I see "God" as an assumption to fill in the gaps of knowledge. I'm also OK with "I don't know" as an answer if I have no means to get an answer. I rather not assume.

That being said, I'm 100% positive all prevalent religions have it wrong.

@TesticleMilkshake, I've seen Jesus Camp. What a bunch of horrible people. Mentally and emotionally abusing their own kids. It's a really disturbing Doc.

When you replied to Dan, you said: "I view Him as an all encompassing being, being both male and female" But you constantly refer to "God" as male. What gives? What's up with the "G-d" thing? What's with the omission?

About Jesus, I just don't think that guy ever existed. I've been through the "evidence" and I gotta say, that's not evidence. That's really reaching. Some of it is just plain made up forgeries excepted as "evidence".

 

[colonel kurtz]

I see "God" as an assumption to fill in the gaps of knowledge

yea, i view most monotheist views of god as nothing more than stories that people made up to explain shit to their kids

"daddy, where did we come from?"..."god made us"

"daddy, why is the sky blue?"..."because it's god's favorite color"

...etc, etc

i think many religious nuts are just really, really, pissed nowadays because they realize, deep down, that science and logic have rendered most of their views of the world completely obsolete, and are lashing out at those who disagree because they know that their lies can only hold up for so long.

OTOH, the aforementioned "age of reason" was written in 1793, and is a fairly well-formed literary destruction of the bible, yet 200+ years later, people still put stock in its drivel

 

[JHA]

No, I'm saying their political values are greatly influenced by the church.

I can't say with certainty, but if you look at the ages of the people who voted and the precincts from which they came from, it was overwhelmingly Christians who voted 'yes' on Amendment One. The fact that we're having this argument is ridiculous - you're going to tell me that a ton of secular atheists in North Carolina voted against marriage equality? Get real.

The 54.6% you're citing as atheists isn't accurate - 54.6% weren't listed as having a religion, which means they either declined to state or simply aren't religious. Areligious and atheist are two totally different things.

Now, I didn't believe that number so I did a bit more research... according to the Pew Forum research group, it's more like this:

Percent who say religion is very important in their lives: 69

Percent who say they attend religious services at least once a week: 49

Percent who say they pray at least once a day: 68

Percent who say they believe in God with absolute certainty: 81

Not to mention this directly backs up the 85% Christian claim:

http://www.pewforum.org/religion08/states/north-carolina/

Let's also take into consideration that NC still has a law on the books preventing atheists from holding public office... it's safe to say the state is very religious, and very Christian.

Your statement about "if that's the majority..." is pure insanity. A democracy has a responsibility to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

I care what they think because that influences how they vote on laws that affect my friends, my family, my community, and me.

Only if that rule is called "logic and reasoning."

You cited a number that would've been gathered from Church/parish registry data; the 85% statistic is from a survey taken directly from the people. If they didn't consider themselves to be religious, they would have answered as such.

You are ignoring the possibility that there might be atheists who voted against gay marriage. It seems your way of thinking is just trying to seek someone/religion to blame because of how the people in NC think about the issue.

About the percentages, like I said two times, I can't tell if it is accurate since it's from 2000. I assume it's from a church records or city administrative court or similar. Let's take a look at your figures in your link:

Sample size: 1,166

Not very accurate... considering the population is over 9 million in NC. I'll be straight and say I don't believe it, I don't believe gallups. I also wonder how many of those 1,166 people are like you, who were former Christians but can't get their names removed from the registry and are being counted as such.

I thought the law does only apply in NC and in practice you could get married in another state that accepts it.

Democracy might be insane but that's how most western countries run. "Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion." It's a rule of the majority.

 

[TesticleMilkshake]

@TesticleMilkshake, I've seen Jesus Camp. What a bunch of horrible people. Mentally and emotionally abusing their own kids. It's a really disturbing Doc.

When you replied to Dan, you said: "I view Him as an all encompassing being, being both male and female" But you constantly refer to "God" as male. What gives? What's up with the "G-d" thing? What's with the omission?

About Jesus, I just don't think that guy ever existed. I've been through the "evidence" and I gotta say, that's not evidence. That's really reaching. Some of it is just plain made up forgeries excepted as "evidence".

In English, there isn't really a gender neutral term for "He or She," (I could use "It", but I feel like that's a bit awkward. There are actually multiple names for G-d in Hebrew. Some of which are feminine, some of which are masculine. Some also err on the more gender neutral side. Also, there's a Jewish tradition of not uttering G-d's true name, so we take the "o" out, it's a kind of superstitious thing, but there are Biblical reason behind it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hebrew_Goddess
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lekhah_Dodi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah

 

[JeffTD]

1. You are ignoring the possibility that there might be atheists who voted against gay marriage. It seems your way of thinking is just trying to seek someone/religion to blame because of how the people in NC think about the issue.

About the percentages, like I said two times, I can't tell if it is accurate since it's from 2000. I assume it's from a church records or city administrative court or similar. Let's take a look at your figures in your link:

Sample size: 1,166

2. Not very accurate... considering the population is over 9 million in NC. I'll be straight and say I don't believe it, I don't believe gallups.

3. I also wonder how many of those 1,166 people are like you, who were former Christians but can't get their names removed from the registry and are being counted as such.

4. I thought the law does only apply in NC and in practice you could get married in another state that accepts it.

5. Democracy might be insane but that's how most western countries run. "Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion." It's a rule of the majority.

1. I'm ignoring it because there isn't a secular argument against same-sex marriage. Religion is to blame for homophobic views being so widespread in America/the world; give me an argument against it from non-religious terms and I'll gladly change my views.

2. Sure, don't believe it, but the Pew Research Group is a very well respected one.

3. No, none of those people are counted as Christians against their will, like I said. They interview people, not collect data from church registry. Nobody who is a former Christian but who is still counted in a church registry will answer those polls as being Christian - that was my point, and you've missed it entirely.

4. That's true, the law is only applicable in NC, but it presents issues when dealing with the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution (Article IV, Section 1). What if someone is married in another state but takes a promotion in NC? Marriage nullified, along with shared pensions, insurance benefits, hospital visitation rights, etc. What if your husband/wife gets in a car crash in NC but you live in MA (where same-sex marriage is legal)? You cannot visit your legal husband/wife in the hospital because NC doesn't recognize the union.

5. Most Western countries don't have democracies for that exact reason; they have constitutional, republican democracies, which are a very specific type of governing. Again, there is a duty to uphold the rights of the minority if the rights of everyone else are to mean anything at all.

 

[egan.]

Because this dumb debate continues to rage on I think it's worth pointing out that no one here is assigning blame to Christian organizations in NC because there is no need to since they are claiming credit. This isn't anything I or anyone else made up. It was a church movement in response to fear that the laws against gay marriage would change as our demographics changed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zpJsqg4w0_U
http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/North_Carolina_Same-Sex_Marriage,_Amendment_1_(May_2012)
http://ncvalues.org/
http://www.catholicvoicenc.org/
http://ffcoalition.com/
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/18...paper-ads-out-in-support-of-ncs-amendment-one