I heard this to be true,anyone know for sure let me know.Before the battle of Agincourt,the French,anticipating a victory over the English,proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers.Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree,and the act of drawing the longbow and would be incapable of fighting in the future.This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree,and the act of drawing the longbow was known as 'plucking the yew' (or pluck yew).Much to the bewilderment of the French,the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French,saying,See we can still pluck yew!Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say,somehow evolved into F**k You.They say it is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as 'giving the bird'.It is still an appropriate salute to the French to this day!
History of the middle finger
- Thread starter saxonfan
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign
The insulting version of the gesture (with the palm inwards) performs a similar social function to "the finger". The "two fingered salute", or "bowfinger", as it is also known, is commonly performed by flicking the V upwards from wrist or elbow. "The finger" is traceable to Roman times [1], but may be unrelated in origin, as the insulting V sign is largely restricted to the UK, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, and Spain, where it is popular among taxi drivers in Madrid. The insulting V sign is not widely recognized in other countries.
The V sign, when the palm is facing toward the person giving the sign, has long been an insulting gesture in England and later the United Kingdom. The popular belief is this is due to English archers, who in medieval times, would have their bow fingers cut off by the French if caught. To show defiance, they would flip their two bow fingers to the French to show they were still able to battle. Some dispute this origin, claiming [*] it is a myth. However, it is widely believed by many in the UK
* It has long been told that the "two-fingers salute" or "V sign" derives from the gestures of Welsh archers, who used the English longbow, fighting alongside the English at the Battle of Agincourt, during the Hundred Years' War. The myth claims that the French cut off two fingers on the right hand of captured archers and that the gesture was a sign of defiance by those who were not mutilated.
This is, however, almost certainly untrue, as the first definitive known reference to the "V-sign" is in the works of Rabelais, the French satirist of the 1500s[1]. This suggests, ironically, a French origin. For more information, please see that entry on its mythic origins.
& More:
Mythic origins
It has long been told that the famous "two-fingers salute" and/or "V sign" derives from the gestures of Welsh archers who used the English longbow, fighting alongside the English at the Battle of Agincourt during the Hundred Years' War. The myth claims that the French cut off two fingers on the right hand of captured archers and that the gesture was a sign of defiance by those who were not mutilated. This etymology has also given rise to an alternative name for the gesture, which can also be known as flicking an "Archers Salute" or just "Archers" as in "He just flicked me an Archers!".
This is, however, almost certainly untrue. The website Snopes has discussed this, along with a recent re-working of this myth which also related the phrase "fuck you" to the same origin, in an attempt to disprove it. [7] The fact that the first definitive known reference to the "V-sign" is in the works of Rabelais, the French satirist of the 1500s, disproves the myth even further. [8] This suggests, ironically, a French origin.
The same story has circulated in the US as a supposed explanation for the use of the middle finger as an obscenity, with the added flourish of saying the slang term for the sign, "flipping/giving the bird," has something to do with feathers on arrows. This is absolutely untrue, as the middle-finger sign dates at least to ancient Rome and definitely symbolizes a penis; "giving the bird" dates to 1800s British theatrical slang, meaning to be driven off stage by goose-like hisses, and was apparently connected to the middle-finger sign by US military pilots in the 1960s.[9]
The general idea of the V-sign originating among archers has one piece of possible evidence in the work of Jean Froissart (circa 1337-circa 1404). Froissart, a historian, was the author of "The Chronicle," a primary document that is essential to an understanding of Europe in the fourteenth century and to the twists and turns taken by the Hundred Years' War. The story of the English waving their fingers at the French is told in a first-person account by Froissart; however, the description is not of an incident at the Battle of Agincourt, but rather at the siege of a castle in another incident during the Hundred Years' War. It is unclear if this is a direct reference to the V-sign. Also, Froissart is known to have died before the Battle of Agincourt. Like many social memes it is difficult to ever know for sure where the V-sign originated, but this story has become a part of British myth.
The insulting version of the gesture (with the palm inwards) performs a similar social function to "the finger". The "two fingered salute", or "bowfinger", as it is also known, is commonly performed by flicking the V upwards from wrist or elbow. "The finger" is traceable to Roman times [1], but may be unrelated in origin, as the insulting V sign is largely restricted to the UK, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, and Spain, where it is popular among taxi drivers in Madrid. The insulting V sign is not widely recognized in other countries.
The V sign, when the palm is facing toward the person giving the sign, has long been an insulting gesture in England and later the United Kingdom. The popular belief is this is due to English archers, who in medieval times, would have their bow fingers cut off by the French if caught. To show defiance, they would flip their two bow fingers to the French to show they were still able to battle. Some dispute this origin, claiming [*] it is a myth. However, it is widely believed by many in the UK
* It has long been told that the "two-fingers salute" or "V sign" derives from the gestures of Welsh archers, who used the English longbow, fighting alongside the English at the Battle of Agincourt, during the Hundred Years' War. The myth claims that the French cut off two fingers on the right hand of captured archers and that the gesture was a sign of defiance by those who were not mutilated.
This is, however, almost certainly untrue, as the first definitive known reference to the "V-sign" is in the works of Rabelais, the French satirist of the 1500s[1]. This suggests, ironically, a French origin. For more information, please see that entry on its mythic origins.
& More:
Mythic origins
It has long been told that the famous "two-fingers salute" and/or "V sign" derives from the gestures of Welsh archers who used the English longbow, fighting alongside the English at the Battle of Agincourt during the Hundred Years' War. The myth claims that the French cut off two fingers on the right hand of captured archers and that the gesture was a sign of defiance by those who were not mutilated. This etymology has also given rise to an alternative name for the gesture, which can also be known as flicking an "Archers Salute" or just "Archers" as in "He just flicked me an Archers!".
This is, however, almost certainly untrue. The website Snopes has discussed this, along with a recent re-working of this myth which also related the phrase "fuck you" to the same origin, in an attempt to disprove it. [7] The fact that the first definitive known reference to the "V-sign" is in the works of Rabelais, the French satirist of the 1500s, disproves the myth even further. [8] This suggests, ironically, a French origin.
The same story has circulated in the US as a supposed explanation for the use of the middle finger as an obscenity, with the added flourish of saying the slang term for the sign, "flipping/giving the bird," has something to do with feathers on arrows. This is absolutely untrue, as the middle-finger sign dates at least to ancient Rome and definitely symbolizes a penis; "giving the bird" dates to 1800s British theatrical slang, meaning to be driven off stage by goose-like hisses, and was apparently connected to the middle-finger sign by US military pilots in the 1960s.[9]
The general idea of the V-sign originating among archers has one piece of possible evidence in the work of Jean Froissart (circa 1337-circa 1404). Froissart, a historian, was the author of "The Chronicle," a primary document that is essential to an understanding of Europe in the fourteenth century and to the twists and turns taken by the Hundred Years' War. The story of the English waving their fingers at the French is told in a first-person account by Froissart; however, the description is not of an incident at the Battle of Agincourt, but rather at the siege of a castle in another incident during the Hundred Years' War. It is unclear if this is a direct reference to the V-sign. Also, Froissart is known to have died before the Battle of Agincourt. Like many social memes it is difficult to ever know for sure where the V-sign originated, but this story has become a part of British myth.
Sammi951
Member
saxonfan said:
I personally don't mind the French. Besides, I don't discriminate - I'll give the V or "the finger" to anyone, of any Nationality!
Heres one supposed to be the first recorded use of a obscene gesture
htp://www.sexualrecords.com/WSRartshtm#_obscene_gesture
htp://www.sexualrecords.com/WSRartshtm#_obscene_gesture
saxonfan said:
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