How many watts should I get?

[Sethis]

Hey guys...So I'm thinking of getting a new head for jamming at home and recording mostly. I just feel something is missing from the amp sims I've been using and I've played with them a LOT.

The thing is, as I said, I'll be playing at home so I need something that can play at "not so loud volumes". A tiny bit loud is okay but anymore than that will get me the cops... The music I play the most is metal. = Lots of gain and tightness. I need punchy/aggresive sound.

I have seen some big heads like the bugeras (6262,333xl) and smaller ones like the blackheart ht-20 (my budget is somewhere at their price, 500-600 range) but I'm not sure the small guys can really do the trick for heavy/tight metal tones. On the other hand, amps like those bugeras scream metal...but are they decent at low volumes? Especially the 6262?

If you were me what tube amp would you get: Lots of watts and run it at low volumes or a low watt and turn it up a bit more? (Probably not so much either unless it's like 10 watt) Thanks. :Smokin:

 

[EffigyForgotten]

Hey guys...So I'm thinking of getting a new head for jamming at home and recording mostly. I just feel something is missing from the amp sims I've been using and I've played with them a LOT.

The thing is, as I said, I'll be playing at home so I need something that can play at "not so loud volumes". A tiny bit loud is okay but anymore than that will get me the cops... The music I play the most is metal. = Lots of gain and tightness. I need punchy/aggresive sound.

I have seen some big heads like the bugeras (6262,333xl) and smaller ones like the blackheart ht-20 (my budget is somewhere at their price, 500-600 range) but I'm not sure the small guys can really do the trick for heavy/tight metal tones. On the other hand, amps like those bugeras scream metal...but are they decent at low volumes? Especially the 6262?

If you were me what tube amp would you get: Lots of watts and run it at low volumes or a low watt and turn it up a bit more? (Probably not so much either unless it's like 10 watt) Thanks. :Smokin:

I use a blackstar stage 60 and with a boost I can get some killer tones, I would get the ht-20 and a nice 2x12 cab with tight speakers (eminence governors are my fav) and get an EQ pedal to shape the sound even tighter. Pickups are a big part in tightness as well, what are you using guitar wise?

 

[MatrixClaw]

Krank Rev Jr. Pro.

 

[Trevoire520]

Krank Rev Jr would be a good bet. Probably the Engl Gigmaster too.

 

[Sethis]

I use a blackstar stage 60 and with a boost I can get some killer tones, I would get the ht-20 and a nice 2x12 cab with tight speakers (eminence governors are my fav) and get an EQ pedal to shape the sound even tighter. Pickups are a big part in tightness as well, what are you using guitar wise?

Schecter Hellraiser with EMGs. That blackstar definitely seems promising man.

Krank Rev Jr. Pro.

Yeah, that was what caught my attention at some point but sadly I don't see these ones a lot in European stores.

Krank Rev Jr would be a good bet. Probably the Engl Gigmaster too.

Okay about the Krank but I don't know...the ENGL sounded a bit weaker to me. Not as much of an ENGL tone.

So does that mean you would easily rule out all higher wattage amps?

 

[AD Chaos]

For home playing I use for instance the Krank RevJr (the 50W, not the 25) reduced at 1 or 2% (that'd amount to 0.5-1W), still get complains..


Safest bet in that case is to use it along with impulses, through either your monitors, or cans.. Works well enough *(for playing, that is)

 

[Sethis]

^ I'd be glad to get my hands on one but this is simply hard around here in Europe. But I'll see what I can do.

Anyone heard of this one? Laboga the beast.

Found this vid as well. Not bad...

 

[lanky noob]

I've got a ht-20 and with a boost pedal it's great, and only 20 watts so you can crank it without deafening everyone around you while getting the toneof the tubes through properly

Stay away from bugera, for a start 6260 is 120 watts which would be too loud for a bedroom really, plus they're unreliable as fuck. Other guitarist in my band had one and he hand to send it back five times in a year, twice because of the reverb breaking, once because the input broke, once because the gain broke and another because the footswitch broke. Ended up having the amp in transit more than in his bedroom, so thomann just gave him a refund and he bought a randall v2 instead :L

 

[PaoloJM]

Ideally metal distortion is produced in the preamp, not the power amp.
For that reason wattage doesn't really matter as you don't want to oerdrive the power amp anyway.

Generally higher wattage amps have a bigger and better defined low end.
Lower wattage amps get a bit wooly in the lows when using a lot of gain.
The tone is where the decision would be made.

To me, for bedroom metal playing, no amp can top a good VST amp with cab sim.
You can do this with just your PC/MAC, interface and a HiFi speaker.
Kemper kicks ass in this role too, but it's out of your financial range.

 

[TheDustbowl]

Welcome to The Minefield. A dimed 1W rated tube amp will quite likely get you blue flashing lights if you live in an apartment. A 5W will almost certainly be too loud most of the time in a domestic situation. For rehearsing and gigging a 15 Watter will often be enough and stick a mic on it if you need more (and have sufficient PA). But...

Volume has to be a slave to sound and tubes sound better when they are pushed, and power tubes sound more betterer than preamp tubes when they're pushed, to most people, mostly. Famousy, Dimebag favoured solid state amps until just before he was murdered and not all amps get better all the way to 11 - my JCM800 does, my Mesas and Boogies have always been better at around 6-8 on the master. Be aware that some manufacturers have made amps such that the power tubes can't be pushed (makes the tubes last longer and reduces warranty claims - my short-lived JCM900 did this). Lower powered tube outputs are sweet but they tend to use different glass and they do sound different - may be what you want or not but you need to listen to them - don't assume that just having glass will make the amp right for you. Attenuators can help a lot - I use a THD Hotplate and can run a 50W amp with power tube saturation at livable levels, just, without destroying the tone - just. I'll do this for recording but not so much for practice. Variable power switching works, but often less than you'd expect and again it changes the sound which may or may not be what you're after. To make matters more complex some amps have great sounding preamps (I love Mesa pres) and/or respond well to pedals and others really do need the power stage to be pumping to sound like anything. To make life even more difficult your speakers have as much effect on SPL as your amp and can make just as much difference to tone.

Personally I'd find an amp range that I liked the sound of then see how it performs turned-up to 3 on the master in terms of volume and tone. If it has a sound you like when it's turned-down then rating doesn't matter that much (though 50W and up will probably be overkill), if it sounds like pants with the master down then you need to make the decision based on that - lower powered version of the same amp or walk-away?

Also be aware that recording loud in a not-great sounding room can be limiting - you will most likely be fine if you're just close micing but you can get a lot of sound bouncing off the walls and exciting room nodes and even a close cardioid mic will pick up some room and more distant mics may (or not) become unusable (if you care about more distant mics of course).

And be prepared for weeks or months of agonising over mics (and preamps) and mic placement - anxiety option is just around the corner.

Enjoy!

 

[Sethis]

Ideally metal distortion is produced in the preamp, not the power amp.
For that reason wattage doesn't really matter as you don't want to oerdrive the power amp anyway.

That's what I was thought but everyone seems to disagree. If power amp distortion doesn't matter for metal why would anyone get a low watt for the purpose amp since what you want is lots of headroom in the power amp? When I think power tubes I usually think stuff in the style of AC/DC for example.

Secondly, I don't get the reason why power dist > pre amp dist. I mean it's tubes coloring the sound in both stages. Perhaps I'm missing something as I'm not a tube expert.

To me, for bedroom metal playing, no amp can top a good VST amp with cab sim.
You can do this with just your PC/MAC, interface and a HiFi speaker.
Kemper kicks ass in this role too, but it's out of your financial range.

I've tried everything...But it's always not exactly what I'm looking for. I either end up with a sound that's weak, harsh, grainy or generally "small" and dry. I can tell it's a sim. And I believe it's not a frequency problem rather how the distortion in the sims is created. Now these sims like AxeFx might do better. But they are extremely costly...

Welcome to The Minefield. A dimed 1W rated tube amp will quite likely get you blue flashing lights if you live in an apartment. A 5W will almost certainly be too loud most of the time in a domestic situation. For rehearsing and gigging a 15 Watter will often be enough and stick a mic on it if you need more (and have sufficient PA). But...

Volume has to be a slave to sound and tubes sound better when they are pushed, and power tubes sound more betterer than preamp tubes when they're pushed, to most people, mostly. Famousy, Dimebag favoured solid state amps until just before he was murdered and not all amps get better all the way to 11 - my JCM800 does, my Mesas and Boogies have always been better at around 6-8 on the master. Be aware that some manufacturers have made amps such that the power tubes can't be pushed (makes the tubes last longer and reduces warranty claims - my short-lived JCM900 did this). Lower powered tube outputs are sweet but they tend to use different glass and they do sound different - may be what you want or not but you need to listen to them - don't assume that just having glass will make the amp right for you. Attenuators can help a lot - I use a THD Hotplate and can run a 50W amp with power tube saturation at livable levels, just, without destroying the tone - just. I'll do this for recording but not so much for practice. Variable power switching works, but often less than you'd expect and again it changes the sound which may or may not be what you're after. To make matters more complex some amps have great sounding preamps (I love Mesa pres) and/or respond well to pedals and others really do need the power stage to be pumping to sound like anything. To make life even more difficult your speakers have as much effect on SPL as your amp and can make just as much difference to tone.

Personally I'd find an amp range that I liked the sound of then see how it performs turned-up to 3 on the master in terms of volume and tone. If it has a sound you like when it's turned-down then rating doesn't matter that much (though 50W and up will probably be overkill), if it sounds like pants with the master down then you need to make the decision based on that - lower powered version of the same amp or walk-away?

Also be aware that recording loud in a not-great sounding room can be limiting - you will most likely be fine if you're just close micing but you can get a lot of sound bouncing off the walls and exciting room nodes and even a close cardioid mic will pick up some room and more distant mics may (or not) become unusable (if you care about more distant mics of course).

And be prepared for weeks or months of agonising over mics (and preamps) and mic placement - anxiety option is just around the corner.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the tips! The cab would probably be close miced with a 57 so I don't think it would be much of an issue.

 

[AD Chaos]

To me, for bedroom metal playing, no amp can top a good VST amp with cab sim.
You can do this with just your PC/MAC, interface and a HiFi speaker.
Kemper kicks ass in this role too, but it's out of your financial range.

Pretty much that, if you aren't going to use it at least somewhat loud, there's not much purpose in purchasing an amp. All differences in between a sim and an amp become more negligible the less volume you use.


Just trying out stuff this morning, I put my recto through a dummy load with a direct line out, load an impulse, EQ, and the end result..


..Quite the same as Alu's recto sim


If you buy an amp and then take the volume down too much (regardless of tube drive) it kind of defeats the purpose of having an actual amp.. Low levels tend to make stuff sound 'plastic', regardless of whether you use a sim, or a real amp without volume for playing.

Well, at least that's my impression with it.



*FWIW, I was using Voxengo to load the impulse, got the tone and drive knobs up a bit, helped with having a more 'cab-like' feel through my monitors..

Maybe try that out before buying an amp!

 

[Sethis]

Little bump here I guess...

Any opinions on this one?

It's the Jim Root Terror and it can go down to 7 watts. Doesn't sound bad...