How much do you charge?

[midget donkeys]

I am all for collecting benefits. I just don't want to pay for them.

I was reading a national geographic article about a fancy pimped out prison in Norway that sounded like a vacation resort. My alternate retirement plan is to go to Norway and commit a crime and go to prison so I can live the good life.

 

[abt]

I read this guitar world post the other day. It's seems like a pretty accurate way of charging.

http://www.guitarworld.com/session-guitar-guidelines-what-charge-different-clients

 

[Mesa4x12er]

If you truly read the thread, most of the dudes with the lower prices are a.) still learning, b.) have other jobs to pay the bills and do the AE thing on the side.

My point involves investment and returns. I have "truly" read the thread and a.) There's no one here that isn't still learning. b.) What does having another income have to do with short changing yourself elsewhere?

In the end it doesn't matter what kind of signal chain it runs through, sims and programmed drums or a 5K setup, etc. If the end result of the guy with no money in his setup sounds better than the guy with the 5K signal chain, what does that really say about the guy with the 5K signal chain I don't mean that as a slam, either, I know plenty of laptop dudes who turn out a product that people rave about.

Are you making it a point to MISS the point? I am well aware you can put out quality work with a meager setup but I'd think engineering skill the same the better setup will win. People aren't buying quality gear for a lot of money because it makes no difference. Also I'm not sure what you're at me for. Bottom line is you're highly unlikely to find people with a lot of money invested that are going to record at hamburger flipping rates. Hopefully anyone that has put in that kind of money has some skill to go with it. So in case it wasn't clear to you my point was never that guys with cheap setups can't make a good product. Take your BS somewhere else.

And, really, any band worth their salt will go to the person who they think will give them the best recording at the best price. It is what it is.

That's obvious. However, there are a lot of guys that go with someone cheap that completely sucks so I'll go out on a limb here and say a lot of times it comes down to $$$ period and has nothing to do with quality.

I don't do a lot of projects these days unfortunately, lol. Even at dirt cheap prices, bands in the style I work in dont have any money, so they do everything themselves with sims and programmed drums, have a friend, or dont record.

ok

I don't setup tracking anymore, I take the bands that want to track to a real studio and they pay the day rate for the studio (~240-350) and myself. Then a flat per song rate to mix and master.

What constitutes a "real" studio to you?

 

[nwright]

My point involves investment and returns. I have "truly" read the thread and a.) There's no one here that isn't still learning. b.) What does having another income have to do with short changing yourself elsewhere?

For me, I don't charge a lot because I do have alternate income and I don't feel that the part time status of recording allows me to learn at a pace commensurate with charging more, so I don't. That's all I meant.

Are you making it a point to MISS the point? I am well aware you can put out quality work with a meager setup but I'd think engineering skill the same the better setup will win. People aren't buying quality gear for a lot of money because it makes no difference. Also I'm not sure what you're at me for. Bottom line is you're highly unlikely to find people with a lot of money invested that are going to record at hamburger flipping rates. Hopefully anyone that has put in that kind of money has some skill to go with it. So in case it wasn't clear to you my point was never that guys with cheap setups can't make a good product. Take your BS somewhere else.

To me your comment about the $$$ of your gear made it sound like your work was automatically worth more because of the gear. I disagree. I know a LOT of dudes with killer studios charging a lot more than a kid in a bedroom and their results for the genres most represented here are horrible. I get the feeling from your posts that you put a lot of emphasis on gear, as if the more expensive gear makes your AE worth "more" than the next guy. I think current times show that it isn't the case at all. Obviously nice gear is, er, nice, no arguing that. But sometimes I feel you de-emphasize the importance of the guy with the ears doing the work and replace that with high dollar components. Maybe I'm off base, but I read that into your posts here and on HCAF, and that reeks of elitism to me, and is somewhat laughable. If I am off base I apologize, but everyone reads posts and infers in their own way...

That's obvious. However, there are a lot of guys that go with someone cheap that completely sucks so I'll go out on a limb here and say a lot of times it comes down to $$$ period and has nothing to do with quality.

But I also know a lot of people who go to the epxensive guy to tout the name/gear and it sounds like shit, too. IME around here I know people who go to the bigger named studios because they equate the money they spend to quality and 99% of the time, the kid in his bedroom could have done better, for a much lower price...In some cases, I feel like I could have been that bedroom guy, and the money I could have made would have been nice, and the band would have something better than what they got for 3-4 times the price, all in the name of gear.

What constitutes a "real" studio to you?

one that has tracking rooms, quality setups, sound acoustics, etc. I.E. Stuff that I myself don't have in my home, thus the reason I said what I said. Why would I bring a band to my house to record when I don't have the adequate stuff to do it, like tracking rooms? I used to do the mobile recording thing, but it's a pain, so now I just refer them to a good studio with good rates and track there.
There was no hidden agenda in those comments, just speaking from my own point of view. And the studio I use is IMO a nice studio with good rates. they don't tout themselves to be more than they are, the owner is a chill dude who just does the work. By comparison, other studios in the area charge more and tout their wares as if it's the be all end all, and tout their gear list as if for some reason that validates their rates. But one listen to their work and you cringe.

In the end it's obvious the lower priced people hurt business for others. I say, it is what it is. If a band can get a product that is quite competitive in terms of quality for a REALLY low price, clamoring for the cheap guy to charge more is an act of futility. If the cheap guy charges less because he can, more power to him. But again, I see it differently I'm sure because the AE thing doesn't put food on my table. And if a band wants to pay me to mix something for them, I still feel like I'm getting paid pretty decently to "learn"...and if they are satisfied with the end result, it's a win win.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

For me, I don't charge a lot because I do have alternate income and I don't feel that the part time status of recording allows me to learn at a pace commensurate with charging more, so I don't. That's all I meant.

I'm not sure what charging more has to do with how much you'll learn but I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming you mean you just won't get work if you charge more.

To me your comment about the $$$ of your gear made it sound like your work was automatically worth more because of the gear. I disagree. I know a LOT of dudes with killer studios charging a lot more than a kid in a bedroom and their results for the genres most represented here are horrible. I get the feeling from your posts that you put a lot of emphasis on gear, as if the more expensive gear makes your AE worth "more" than the next guy. I think current times show that it isn't the case at all. Obviously nice gear is, er, nice, no arguing that. But sometimes I feel you de-emphasize the importance of the guy with the ears doing the work and replace that with high dollar components. Maybe I'm off base, but I read that into your posts here and on HCAF, and that reeks of elitism to me, and is somewhat laughable. If I am off base I apologize, but everyone reads posts and infers in their own way...

Honestly dude there was no elitism meant in my comment. Although it's clear you've had a bug up your ass about me for a few years so I don't guess there is shit all I can do about what you think about me since your mind was made up a long time ago. My point of referencing a dollar amount was merely the point that I've invested in some good gear. That is a factor in what I charge and it has been a factor for me choosing a studio for myself in the past and in the future as well. No, gear itself isn't the only factor but as I said before if the talent of the engineers is in the same ballpark I'd easily take the guy with the nice stuff over the guy without it. Also when you're spending a lot of money on your gear I'd say you have more reason to be concerned about your income than someone that hasn't. Business 101 dude. So to end this part, no dude I do not just put emphasis on gear nor do I de-emphasize the importance of skills. I bust my ass trying to get better everyday. I don't just buy a piece of gear hoping it will make me better. I buy better gear to maximize the potential I have. You could build a house with nails and a spoon but I bet you'll make a better house with nails and a hammer.

But I also know a lot of people who go to the epxensive guy to tout the name/gear and it sounds like shit, too. IME around here I know people who go to the bigger named studios because they equate the money they spend to quality and 99% of the time, the kid in his bedroom could have done better, for a much lower price...In some cases, I feel like I could have been that bedroom guy, and the money I could have made would have been nice, and the band would have something better than what they got for 3-4 times the price, all in the name of gear.

I agree with this. People do go to both extremes for sure. Sucks for them because they fuck themselves left and right by focusing too much on details that don't necessarily mean shit to the end result as opposed to the results themselves.

one that has tracking rooms, quality setups, sound acoustics, etc. I.E. Stuff that I myself don't have in my home, thus the reason I said what I said. Why would I bring a band to my house to record when I don't have the adequate stuff to do it, like tracking rooms? I used to do the mobile recording thing, but it's a pain, so now I just refer them to a good studio with good rates and track there.
There was no hidden agenda in those comments, just speaking from my own point of view.

I agree. I only asked because above you got onto me about mentioning quality equipment and then turned around at the end and said "Let's go to a place with quality stuff."

In the end it's obvious the lower priced people hurt business for others. I say, it is what it is. If a band can get a product that is quite competitive in terms of quality for a REALLY low price, clamoring for the cheap guy to charge more is an act of futility. If the cheap guy charges less because he can, more power to him. But again, I see it differently I'm sure because the AE thing doesn't put food on my table. And if a band wants to pay me to mix something for them, I still feel like I'm getting paid pretty decently to "learn"...and if they are satisfied with the end result, it's a win win.

Yep.

 

[nwright]

I'm not sure what charging more has to do with how much you'll learn but I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming you mean you just won't get work if you charge more.

No, I mean I feel like my work isn't worth more because I am still learning and trying to get better. When I feel like my work is worth more, I'll charge more. even at my price, I have plenty of people who turn it down to go somewhere else for the same price, more money, or less. In my case, I feel they choose the place that will give them what they want at the best price for it. And sometimes it isn't me. For me, I think it's because I'm not good enough, and I'm OK with that.

I only asked because above you got onto me about mentioning quality equipment and then turned around at the end and said "Let's go to a place with quality stuff."

My angle in taking someone there to record is more to do with the fact that the real studio has space for tracking, and they don't charge much...the fact that they have good equipment in this specific case doesn't apply. If all they had was what I have at my house, only with good rooms, then I'd still go there. The place runs PTHD with great gear and they are currently running a demo special, 6 songs mixed and mastered for 250 bucks...So yeah, thats less than what most bedroom AE's charge and their gear is nice...So in this specific case, what I wrote isn't counter intuitive.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

No, I mean I feel like my work isn't worth more because I am still learning and trying to get better. When I feel like my work is worth more, I'll charge more. even at my price, I have plenty of people who turn it down to go somewhere else for the same price, more money, or less. In my case, I feel they choose the place that will give them what they want at the best price for it. And sometimes it isn't me. For me, I think it's because I'm not good enough, and I'm OK with that.

Well I'm in the same boat. Still not sure what I'm worth. Lately I've been basing my pricing off of the local competition's rate, what equipment they have available, what type of facility they have and then whether I can do a better job. I'm always trying to get better and I'm by no means delusional about what I can or can't do. BUT I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. That's awesome that you care about being the best you can. I'd hope we all are. I just think it's important to not sell yourself short because A.) it's not good for your mind and B.) as we talk about stupid people and their tendencies..they will only believe you are good as you are charging. If you charge $10 an hour but another guy charges $30 they will jsut assume he is better than you and a lot of times that may not be the case. Sure there are people that won't just jump to that conclusion but as a whole people are dumb and are influenced a lot by things they shouldn't necessarily be influenced by. I'm still trying to find a happy medium myself. Not overcharging but not devaluing myself in the eyes of everyone as well.

My angle in taking someone there to record is more to do with the fact that the real studio has space for tracking, and they don't charge much...the fact that they have good equipment in this specific case doesn't apply. If all they had was what I have at my house, only with good rooms, then I'd still go there. The place runs PTHD with great gear and they are currently running a demo special, 6 songs mixed and mastered for 250 bucks...So yeah, thats less than what most bedroom AE's charge and their gear is nice...So in this specific case, what I wrote isn't counter intuitive.

I get ya. Here we have a studio where the guy has big rooms and yet he doesn't even mic drums. Triggers on everything and out pops a Superior rendering. I can't wait for the zombie apocalypse.