How to deal with cockhead guitarists who want the bass too soft?

[Morgan C]

Yes the title is a spin-off of that other one from last week.

Basically im recording an EP (of my band.. which makes this even harder). Guitarist did guitars and I recorded everything else and am mixing/mastering/etc.

Typical metal guitars, but the bass is often playing a counter rhythm or melody, and I want it to be heard. Ala Mudvayne or Opeth. So I'm trying to get some really tight low-mids going on, with some bass action, and not much treble.

Give it to the guitarist - he says its boomy (ie audible) and too smooth (ie no treble. This was recorded with 2 year old strings, unfortunately so this isn't something I can easily adjust and get sounding good). So I remove the lowmids, boost the treble a lot. So you can barely hear the bass and just hear the treble, and now he says to turn it down.


I don't think there's anything I can really do except for "fuck you this is the final mix". He keeps saying that a bass like I'm getting doesn't "fit" his songs.. and only seems to be satisfied when GUITARS ARE RLY LOUD LOL, NOTHING ELSE IN TEH WAY. Oh wellz, I will probly end up leaving the band soon (once the EP is done), as the guitarist/composer can be a cockhead in pretty much everything. Very hard to deal with.

 

[Ermz]

Clips?

 

[Behind]

This is difficult since you're directly involved. If you were just the person who mix it, I'd say... hey, turn down that bass and that's it.

The tip I'd give you is to try to explain that you don't want that your work get lost in the mix. Show him records were there's the sound you want to achieve.

Another option is to post the mix to help us to take a look at it and say what can you do.

 

[exoslime]

.... as the guitarist/composer can be a cockhead in pretty much everything. Very hard to deal with.

from what i read in your thread, it seems to me that this guy is the "leader" of the band, and therefore he has vision of how the songs should sound.
For me, a person that know what he wants is a big plus!!

but its a difficult situation for you of course, and you can tell him that it is necessary to the final sound of the mix to have a bass there, and if he doesnt like the counterplaying of the bass then the bassparts needs to be rearranged and rerecorded.

its needs to be clear who takes the decisions in the band and there you go, and if the involved are mature enough, compromise will happen and wont be a problem at all.

If somebody wants to force his "i would like that it sound like this" into another ones concept its just a matter of time till it crashes imho.

but recording with 2 year old strings......:zombie:


cheers
exoslime

 

[Jaymz]

Yeah its annoying with another guitarist says your shits always boomy

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Why don't you change your strings and re-record so that the bass sounds better. I know old strings on guitars lend to muddy, totally indistinct sound, so a string change might get you where you need to be.

 

[Joematthews]

Old strings on bass = uke:

Joe

 

[DTDJosh]

Haha, straight up tell him if he wants it done a certain way to do it himself, lol.

Nah, just talk it out with him and see what he thinks then tell him your thoughts. Talking things out is way easier than a mixing war.

 

[brianhood]

lmao @ the title

care to post a clip?

 

[paladin shredder]

This was recorded with 2 year old strings, unfortunately so this isn't something I can easily adjust and get sounding good

Like others have said, buy some new strings and re-track bass, then there will be very little you have to adjust. I've noticed that to much 250-300hz in bass can really mud up the guitar tone.

 

[Eschatologist]

Old strings on bass = uke:

Joe

Just changed mine after about 2 years, haha....WHAT a difference!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Recording bass with old strings is pointless.

 

[Morgan C]

Follow-up on this..

Just to clarify a few things. I'm not the bassist, I'm the drummer. He IS the composer, but really only does guitar. I do drums and bass parts, and work out vocal melodies/lyrics with the vocalist. So its an equal leadership (which is probably the main problem ;p).

2 year old strings suck, yes. Whats worse is having a bass player that only plays when he comes over to record. Literally. LOTS of editing required, and tracking took ages. This EP has been in the recording stage for like a year (the joy of being your own producer/engineer/etc.) and rerecording is in my eyes just not an option :/

Clips are coming soon. I had a listen to DT's Train of Thought and Mudvayne and Opeth and a lot of the bass sound comes from around 100Hz, and it doesn't have much subs (like Clayman or Stabbing the Drama). I've managed to get a fairly good bass sound by lowering the subs and boosting around 100Hz, and then cutting fairly majorly on the guitar lows.

edit:
Tone1 (admittedly the levels weren't properly set on this so the bass is quite loud):http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/ParanoiaBassTone1.mp3

Tone2 (Had mostly subs and high mids.. he wanted a 'punchy' sound so that was what this was trying to achieve): http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/ParanoiaBassTone2.mp3

Tone3 (Took out a lot of subs and put in lots around 100hz, took out there with the guitars, much clearer and not as overpowering.. although I'll probly get the "too smooth" comment again): http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/ParanoiaBassTone3.mp3

 

[GarethSE]

Clip 3 just sounds much too thin IMO.

Clip 2 is purdypurfect IMO.


And one final point, since YOU are the producer, I should think you have much more of a right an express your opinion on a mix compared to him.
I mean, there's a reason you're producing it and not him.

 

[kantoor]

Actually I think in all 3 clips bass is too quiet. Guitars too. Good drum sounds but too loud compred to bass/guitar. Withou the good old low end from the bass the tracks are going to sound wimpy no matter how loud the guitar or kick drum are

 

[Behind]

The bass in the 3rd clip sounds too thin to me, but the guitar sound is the best one.

If I'd have to work with those files, I'd choose the bass sound of the second clip and the guitars of the third one.

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

The bass in the 3rd clip sounds too thin to me, but the guitar sound is the best one.

If I'd have to work with those files, I'd choose the bass sound of the second clip and the guitars of the third one.

+1 but I guess that's mainly because the guitars are loudest in lip 3 and the bass is loudest in clip 2 (and has less poppy highmids that are really anoying in the other two clips)

I'd go for a pretty loud and smooth bass sound together with the guitars (and level) of clip 3

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

RE:

the guitarist/composer can be a cockhead

Fuck him. He's a douche. Tell him to do it himself or suck it.


But that's just how I roll...

 

[Morgan C]

I seem to have found a solution with automation - making the cool bits pop out a bit more. The riffs are about 50/50 lining with the guitars and playing their own thing. Will take a while to automate each song but I think it'll be worth it. Will post a clip in a bit. The clip I posted before didn't really showcase the kinda stuff he's playing, more just went with the guitars.