How To Refute Flat Earth Lies

[FEZZILLA]

Outline of Topics:

Post #1 - Introduction & Firmament/Heavens
Post #2 - The Artist Behind the Picture
Post #3 - The "Chuwg" Isaiah 40:22 Super Post
Post #4 - Job 26:7
Post #5 - Job 26:10
Post #6 - The Spinning Globe Post
Post #7 - Ecclesiastes 1:6
Post #8 - Jesus Returns to the Round Earth
Post #9 - Flat Earthers Challenge To Isaiah 40:22 -- REFUTED!!
Post #10 - Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.)
Post #11 - Explaining the Moving Sun in the Bible
Post #12 - Clement of Rome (35-99 A.D.) -- Globe Earth!
Post #13 - The Forgotten "Round World" Verses of Scripture.
Post #14 - Did The Greeks Influence The Christians?
Post #18 - The book of Enoch


INTRODUCTION
I know there are many people on social media sick of the flat earth nonsense. We all know the earth is round, a globe, a sphere. But most flat earthers also know the earth is round but chose to spread lies with the purpose of anarchy and chaos in mind. The goal is simple but subtle: Attack the Bible and make it look like it teaches flat earth while pretending to be Christians (making Christians look stupid). They also attack NASA to spread an unwarranted hatred against NASA for the purpose of eventually weakening the space agency so that our Nation Defense will become weak and we'll be attacked by other countries and destroyed. Make no mistake about it: this flat earth movement is all about anarchy and death to modern civilization. Since the Bible is the founding document of modern civilization, it must be attacked. This flat earth movement is not a Christian movement! Do no be fooled! I'm a Christian...and have studied the Bible and creationism now for 15 years. I do know what Christians have believed from the 1st century of Christ on up to the present now.

So in this topic you will see more of a database of information so that all you need to do is copy-paste from it in debates against flat earthers. I own all documents quoted from here and nothing is borrowed from online. I hand typed all this to make sure the Internet had this information available. My philosophy behind my debate against flat earthers is to just answer their skepticism on the Bible and then they will disperse just as they did at Babel. My online assault against Flat Earth lies has been very effective as not one flat earther has been able to last long in a debate against me due to the powerful information I have which all comes from the most reputable sources covering 2000+ years of Christianity as well as Judaism. So the focus of this topic is not th verses quoted as much as how to properly interpret those verses. I guarantee that if you know how to use this information you cannot lose a debate against flat earthers.

FIRMAMENT/HEAVENS
The first place to start is with the firmament. Flat earthers use outdated English and bad translations to based their phony theology on. The King James Bible is a very good translation but the problem with that translations and others is how back in the 16th century when English translation were being written, there was no set standard of English and words and phrases back then can mean something entirely different today. For example, the KJV use of the word Heaven found in Genesis 1:14 means heavens as in more than one heaven. The word replenish in the KJV simply meant to fill the earth. There is a long list of words and phases in the KJV which no longer carry the same meaning in today's English as they did in 1611.
Then there are the corrupt liberal translations like the Obamacare Bible...the NIV 2011 Edition (NIV'11). This corruption changed 40% of the NIV'84 to fit liberal propaganda against the Bible. Other corruptions of the Bible done by liberals are the NRSV and NAB (also known as NABRE). The NIV'11 is published by the same company as the Satanic Bible which speaks volumes about the liberal agenda behind that corrupt translation.

So in this first post we will just focus on the firmament of the heavens using the most reliable lexicon on the market which is The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible.


Firmament/expanse from The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"H7549. רָקִיעַ râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

(1) Raqiya means that which is fixed and steadfast, rather than that which is solid. (1a) The application to the heavenly bodies is simple and beautful: (b) they are not fickle and uncertain in their movements, but are regulated by a law that they cannot pass over. (2) It comes from raqa (7554) which means spread out. The firmament, then is that which is spread or stretched out--hence an expanse. Thus it is extended and fixed, or fixed space. (3) The interplanetary spaces are measured out by God, and though the stars are ever moving, they generally preserve fixed relative positions; their movements are not erratic, not in straight lines, but in orbits, and thus, though ever changing, they are always the same."

As you can plainly read the word "raqiya" does not mean solid dome. Flat earthers reject the reliability of Strong's and just go by what memes and youtube says. In other words, they oppose the entire body of Christ from the beginning up to the present now. With this kind of rejection towards authority the movement cannot be considered Christian. There is no solid dome in the Bible.

The proper word for "raqiya" would translate as expanse in our modern translations with up to date English and grammar.

Next we have the word heavens which in the KJV grammar of the 16th century was translated as heaven. But the word, depending on its application in context, would mean either a singular heaven or the heavens beyond our earthly sky.


Heaven/Heavens defined in The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"8064. [420x] Shamayin, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused sing.

Shameh, shaw-mah'; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perb. alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): -- heaven (39x), air [21x], astrologer + 1895 [1x].

Introduction: Sometimes it signifies the atmosphere immediately surrounding the earth, in which the fowls of the air fly. Sometimes it is used of the space in which the clouds are floating. In other places it refers to the vast expanse through which the starts are moving in their courses. It is opposed to sheowl (7585), the one being regarded as a place of exaltation, the other of degradation; the one being represented as the dwelling place of the Most High and the angels of God, the other as the abode of the dead. It includes all space that is not occupied by the terrestrial globe, and extends from the air we breathe and the winds we feel around us to the firmament or expanse that contains the innumerable stars. This is includes, and exceeds for where our intellect ceases to operate, and fails to find a limit to the extension of space, there faith comes in. And while before the eye of the body there is spread out an infinity of space, the possession of the super-material nature brings us into communion with a Being whose nature and condition cannot adequately be described by terms of locality or extension. The heavens and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him. The countless stars are not only known and numbered by Him, but are called into existence and fixed in their courses by His will and wisdom. Where He is, there the true heaven is; and the glories of the firmament faintly shadow forth the ineffable bliss that those must realize who are brought into relationship with Him.
(1) Shamayim is the usual for the sky and the realm of the sky (1a) birds fly (Duet.4:17). (1b) This area, high above the ground below the stars and heavenly bodies, is often a locus of visions (1 Chr. 21:16). (2) This word represents an area farther removed from the earth's surface (2a) from which come such things as (2a1) frost (Job 38:29), (2a2) snow (Is 55:10), (2a3) fire (Gen 19:24), (2a4) dust (Deut 28:24), (2a5) hail (Josh 10:11), and (a26) rain (Gen 8:2). (2b) This realm is God's storehouse; God is (3a) the dispenser of the stores and Lord of the realm (Deut 28:12). (2c) This meaning of shamayim occurs in Gen 1:7-8. (3) Shamayim also represents the realm in which the sun, moon, and stars are located (Gen 1:14). (4) The phrase "heaven and earth" may denote the entire creation (Gen 1:1). (5) Heaven is the dwelling place of God (Ps 2:4; Deut 4:39; 26:15). (5a) Another expression representing the dwelling place of God is "the highest heaven" [literally, the heaven of heavens] (Deut 10:14). (5b) This does not indicate height, but also an absolute--i.e., God's abode is a unique realm not to be identified with a physical creation. Syn.: 7834. See TWOT--2407a; BDB--1029c, 116a."

Thus, the sun and moon and stars (planets included in stars) are not being placed in the sky of the earth, but in the vast expanse of the heavens. So here are modern translations that have Genesis chapter 1 translation real good. The weakest of these translations presented here is the NASB, so I will link that translation last.

The MEV is a solid modern English translation which nicely updates the KJV grammar.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=MEV

Likewise the ESV nails Genesis chapter 1 down real good.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=ESV

The NKJV is probably the most solid of all modern translations but it does not use the word expanse, but continues to use firmament. This is fine as long as the grammar is also translated into modern English grammar which it is.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NKJV

The RSV, like the NKJV, uses firmament but provides us with an accurate Hebrew to modern English grammar.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=RSV

The NASB is a solid translation that does contain some noticeable translation errors. But since Genesis 1 is done perfectly I will link it up with the other translations that accurately translated Genesis 1.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NASB

In light of the Strong's lexicon and reliable translations we see an entirely different firmament/expanse than what is presented by flat earthers from their radically far left sources which cannot be traced past the 20th century.

This refutes the flat earth lie that the sun, moon and stars are placed in the sky of the earth. The Bible actually does tell us that the sun, moon and stars are placed in the expanse of the heavens. The Bible teaches us about many heavens beyond the sky of the earth. The sky of the earth would just be singular heaven. The Strong's definitions are the best and most trusted.

 

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The Artist Behind The Picture.









Flat earthers will constantly post photos such as this one. They post it over and over and still over again, hoping you will evetually believe that this picture represents the world according to the Hebrews. The photo you see here is a colored replica of a photo drawn up by an English-born Jewish Biblical scholar by the name of Nahum Sarna (1923-2005), who's approach to theology was very liberal. He was never able to substantiate his claims of flat earth Hebrews. He drew a picture and the ideology of this picture drives the flat earth movement. But as you will learn in this lesson about the shape of the earth from the Bible, there is no tradition of flat earth among either the Jews or the early Christians.

 

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The "Chuwg" Isaiah 40:22 Super Post.

Chuwg: circle, circuit, compass, sphere,

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon:

H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

The English word “circle” is the Hebrew “Chuwg,” which means to describe a circle---compass, as in a compassing circle (as in a globe shape, 3D circle). It also means circuit (Strong’s numbers H2328, H2329) Therefore chuwg (or khug) is used to describe a circle that compasses itself. The English word compass used as a verb means to surround; to encircle; to environ; to stretch round, while encompass (also used as a verb) is to form a circle around; to encircle. As a noun the word compass means a magnetic or electronic device used to determine the cardinal directions (usually magnetic or true north). The flat earth conspiracists reject the four cardinal directions in their flat earth model. They reject the reality that the polar regions (North and South) exist.
https://wikidiff.com/compass/encompass

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”

Matthew Henry's Commentary

"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”

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How it was applied by the ancient church,

Here is 4th century Bishop Ambrose giving a reading from Isaiah 40:22.

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

Here is the English translation of Jerome's Latin Vulgate,

"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Douay-Rheims Bible).

The English "circle" is meant to be understood as a 3D circle as seen from space.

 

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Job 26:7

In flat earth theology, the earth is held up by a physical object. But this not the Biblical earth at all. Th earth in the Bible is not held up by any physical object.


Job 26:7: נטה צפון על תהו תלה ארץ על בלי מה׃

"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing" (KJV).

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Corpus of Translations:

"Which God stretchith forth the north on voide thing, and hangith the erthe on nouyt" (1382 Wycliffe Bible).

"He stretcheth out ye north ouer the emptie, & hageth ye earth vpo nothinge" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

"He stretched oute the north ouer the emptie, & hangeth the earth vpon nothinge" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

"He stretcheth out the north ouer the emptie, and hangeth the earth vpon nothing" (1539 Great Bible).

"He stretcheth out the noorth ouer the emptie place, and hangeth the earth vpon nothing" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

"He stretched out the North over empty space,
and suspends the earth over nothing at all" (NAB).

"He stretches out the north over the void
and hangs the earth on nothing" (ESV).

"He stretched out the north over the empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Douay-Rheims Bible).

"He stretches out the north over empty space
And hangs the earth on nothing" (NASB).

"He stretches out the north over empty space,
He hangs the earth upon nothing" (MEV).

"He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing" (NIV).

"He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing" (NKJV).

"God stretches the northern sky over empty space
and hangs the earth on nothing" (NLT).

"He stretches out the north over the void,
and hangs the earth upon nothing" (RSV).

"He stretches out Zaphon over the void,
and hangs the earth upon nothing" (NRSV).

"Stretching out the north over desolation, Hanging the earth upon nothing" (YLT).

"He stretches the north over chaos
and suspends the earth on nothing" (Complete Jewish Bible).

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Hebrew Lexicons:

The word "hangeth" found in the KJV is the Hebrew word תָּלָה.

The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"H8518. תָּלָה tâlâh, taw-law'; a primitive root; to suspend (especially to gibbet):—hang [25x], hang up [3x]. See: TWOT -- 2512; BDB -- 1067d"

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament:

TWOT: "2512 תָּלָה (tâlâh) hang. (ASV and RSV similar.)
". . . The verb means basically "to hang," whether a utensil on a peg (Isa 22:24; Ezk 15:3), weapons on a wall ((Ezk 27:10f., both Piel: Song 4:4), or a lyre on a tree (Ps 137:2). Job 26:7 strikingly pictures the then-known world as suspended in space, thereby anticipating future scientific discovery, when it states that God "hangs the earth upon nothing." Other (more grisly) examples of the verb may be seen in Lam 5:12 (Niphal); 11 Sam 4:12; 18:10."

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Vol.4: תָּלָה (tlh), hang (#9434),

". . . 5. Hanging or suspending other objects. These include harps, which are hung on poplars by the disconsolate exiles (Ps 137:2), a variety of things that can be hung on a wooden peg (yated, --> # 3845; Ezk 15:3), and the earth, which is hung by God "over nothing" (Job 26:7).

Make sure to see Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon definition linked below and seen on the photo of this post
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h8518

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Commentary on Job 26:7,

Believer's Bible Commentary:

"26:5-13 The rest of the chapter gives a marvelous description of God's power in the universe: the evaporation/precipitation cycle; the density of the clouds; the cycle of light and darkness; the storm at sea; and the stars and constellations by which His Spirit has adorned the heavens.
While Bildad stressed God's glory in the heavens, Job here dwells on His power in the depths: under the waters, Sheol, and Destruction.
Job desccribes--centuries before science taught it--that God hangs the earth on nothing (which is a poetic depiction of the earth's position and movement in the solar system).

How immeasurably above the cosmogonies of the heathen philosophers are these few grand words! In them we have as in germ the discoveries of a Newton and a Keppler. It is a great mistake to think Scripture does not teach scientific truth. It teaches all needed truth, even if not in scientific language. yet with scientific accuracy"

[Ridout, Job, pp.133, 134] (brackets mine).

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary on the Whole Bible,

"7. Hint of the true theory of the earth. Its suspension in empty space is stated in the second clause. The north in particular is specified in the first, being believed to be the highest part of the earth ( Isaiah 14:13 ). The northern hemisphere or vault of heaven is included; often compared to a stretched-out canopy ( Psalms 104:2 ). The chambers of the south are mentioned ( Job 9:9 ), that is, the southern hemisphere, consistently with the earth's globular form."

Matthew Henry's Commentary,

"(1.) He hangs the earth upon nothing, v. 7. The vast terraqueous globe neither rests upon any pillars nor hangs upon any axle-tree, and yet, by the almighty power of God, is firmly fixed in its place, poised with its own weight. The art of man could not hang a feather upon nothing, yet the divine wisdom hangs the whole earth so. It is ponderibus librata suis—poised by its own weight, so says the poet; it is upheld by the word of God’s power, so says the apostle. What is hung upon nothing may serve us to set our feet on, and bear the weight of our bodies, but it will never serve us to set our hearts on, nor bear the weight of our souls."

The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Abridged Edition),

“7-8 The word “skies” is a justifiable insertion in v.7. Although Saphon means “north” (GK 7600), the verb “spreads out” is never used of the earth but if often used in reference to the heavens (cf.9:8). This imagery is continued by the words “over empty space.” It is not difficult to postulate what “empty space” might be intended by Job if he were referring to a northern region of the earth where the majestic mountains rise.
Job was pointing to God’s power as incomprehensible. The heavens are visible yet, they do not fall to earth; there is no visible means of support. Even the earth itself can be said to hang on nothing. That God spread out the heavens over empty space, hang the earth on nothing, and fill the clouds with water without bursting is intended to make us stand in awe. Job was boldly expressing in poetic terms the marvelous and majestic power of God.”

Ancient Christian Commentary On Scripture: Old Testament XI -- Job,

"26:7-9 God Suspends the World on Nothing

Rain Useful To The Whole Created Order. Olympiodorus [ the Deacon ]: "He stretches out the north wind upon nothing, and he upon nothing hangs the earth." Indeed the support of the earth is nothing but an understructure, but it is suspended and is sustained by Divine will. . . . " (brackets mine).

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St.Ambrose (340 – 397 A.D.),

Here is a lengthy quote which answers criticism from flat earthers. Ambrose quotes from Job 26:7 as well as explains it when he says "Let others hold approvingly that the earth never will fall, because it keeps its position in the midst of the world in accordance with nature." I am pretty certain that when Ambrose says "midst of the world" he is referring to the solar system. Here is the full context:

"“How the disposition of the earth therefore depends upon the power of God, you may learn also where it is written: ‘He looketh upon the earth and maketh it tremble,’ and elsewhere: ‘One again I move the earth.’ Therefore, the earth remains immovable not by its balances, but is moved frequently by the nod and free will of God, as Job, too, says: ‘The Lord shaketh it from its foundations, and the pillars thereof tremble.’ And elsewhere: ‘Hell is naked before him and there is no covering for death. He stretched out the north over the empty space and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his clouds. The pillars of heaven fled away and are in dread at his rebuke. By his power the seas are calmed, by his wisdom is struck down the sea-monster, and the gates of heaven fear him.’
By the will of God, therefore, the earth remains immovable. ‘The earth standeth for ever,’ according to Ecclesiastes, yet is moved and nods according to the will of God. It does not therefore continue to exist because based on its own foundation. It does not stay stable because based on its own props. The Lord established it by the support of His will, because ‘in his hand are all the ends of the earth.’ The simplicity of this faith is worth all the proffered proofs.
Let others hold approvingly that the earth never will fall, because it keeps its position in the midst of the world in accordance with nature. They maintain that it is from necessity that the earth remains in its place and is not inclined in another direction, as long as it does not move contrary to nature but in accordance with it. Let them take occasion to magnify the excellence of their divine Artist and eternal Craftsman. What artist is not indebted to Him? ‘Who gave to women the knowledge of weaving or the understanding of embroidery?’ However, I who am unable to comprehend the excellence of His majesty and His art do not entrust myself to theoretical weights and measures. Rather, I believe that all things depend on His will, which is the foundation of the universe and because of which the world endures up to the present” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron," The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, pp.22-23).

Ambrose is saying that the earth will not fall or move out or away from the laws God ordained for it. Some flat earthers will still accuse Ambrose of teaching flat earth. But he goes on to quote from Isaiah 40:22,

“And further on: ‘Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?’ Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (p.231).

So let there be no mistake: Ambrose knows the earth is a globe and that it is suspended in space over nothing. The earth is said to be held up by God's will.

Clement of Rome says this:

“Thus, by His transcendent might He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible understanding He ordered them: the earth He separated from the water now encircling it, and firmly grounded it on the unshakable foundation of His own will” (33:3).

The watered are encircling the earth and its foundation is grounded on God's will, which means the earth is held up by nothing other than God's will. God's will being the laws He ordained for it.

 

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Job 26:10

“He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end” (KJV).

Other Translations:

“He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters,
At the boundary of light and darkness” (NKJV).

“He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters
at the boundary between light and darkness” (HCSB).

"he hath compassed the waters with certayne boundes, vntill the day and night come to an ende" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

“He has circled the waters with boundaries,
until the day and night come to an end” (MEV).

“He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters
for a boundary between light and darkness” (NIV84).

“He created the horizon when he separated the waters;
he set the boundary between day and night” (NLT).

Here again the Hebrew word is Chuwg, which in this verse means to describe a circle, compass; an encompassing circle like a globe. No flat earth has compassing bounds at any boundary of light and darkness. To compass does not mean to go around as in the turntable of a record player. That would not be an encompassing circle. A circle that compassed the water with bounds is clearly a globe/sphere in shape. The word “horizon” also is used to describe the curvature of the waters which reflects on the shape of the earth. It can also be used to describe the curvature of the sky. The flat earthers have a hard time understanding a horizon and somehow believe a horizon means a flat disc shape earth. But one has to deviate from English definitions and centuries of education to actually believe this. But anarchists do deviate from all useful and knowable knowledge since their agenda is to destroy modern civilization.

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“26:10 compassed. The word “compassed” is the Hebrew khug, translated “circle” in Isaiah 40:22 (see also Pr.8:27). It refers here to the global sea level, which defines the “circle of the earth” and the “compass upon the face of the depth,” and which defines the bounds which the waters cannot cross as long as the earth endures, in accordance with the Noahic covenant (Gen.8:22; 9:11).
26:10 come to an end. This is a reference to the boundary between day and night--that is, along a great circle through the center of the earth, with light on one side and darkness on the other. This follows from the spherical shape of the earth, as implied in the first part of this verse.”

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“Rather, “He hath drawn a circular bound round the waters” (Prov.8:27; Ps.104:9). The horizon seems a circle. Indication is given of the globular form of the earth. until the day . . . to the confines of light and darkness. When the light falls on our horizon, the other hemisphere is dark. UMBREIT and MAUDER translate “He has most perfectly (lit., “to perfection”) drawn the bound (taken from the first clause) between light and darkness” (cf. Gen.1:4; 6, 9); where the bounding of the light from darkness is similarly brought into proximity with the boundary of the waters.”

The Expositor’s Bible Commentary,

“The NIV interprets the literal Hebrew “he draws a circle” as God’s establishment of the horizon, which acts as the line of the demarcation between light and darkness (day and night). Job was ascribing to God, and not to the incarnations and rituals of the nature cults, the authority and dominion over night and day.”

The Bible Knowledge Commentary (1985 Edition)

“At the horizon. . . light and darkness seem to separate. The horizon is circular, for the verb marks out translates the word hug, “to draw a circle,” and suggest the curvature of the earth. This too accords with the facts known by scientists only in recent times.”

“Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?”

This is the challenge for those who question the shape of the earth.

Ancient Christian Commentary On Scripture (Old Testament Vol. VI, Job),

“26:10 The Boundary Between Lught and Darkness.
THE ORDER GIVEN BY GOD. ISHO’DAD OF MERV: So God has gathered the waters that were spread on the earth at the beginning and has imposed a limit on them. His command has surrounded them like a circle, so that they might not exceed it. He has set a “boundary between light and darkness.” This means that he has ordered the light and the darkness to occupy their given times in good harmony and not prevail in one another. COMMENTARY ON JOB 26:10.”

The Book of Job was written about 2000 B.C. and is believed to be the oldest written document of the Bible (though some believe Gen.1--11 may have been written before then). Some scholars place Job about 1000 B.C. Whatever the date scholars agree on it’s very old.

 

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The Spinning Globe Post.

Job 38:14, The Rotation of the earth

“It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment” (KJV)

Other Translations:

“It is turned as clay to fashion, and all stand up as a garment” (1599 Geneva Bible).

“It is turned like clay by the seal,
and it stands out as a garment” (MEV)

“It turneth itself as clay of a seal And they station themselves as clothed” (YLT).

"It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment" (Noah Webster's Bible, 1833).

============================================
So it [the earth] is turning in a full rotation facing the dayspring (v.12). Henry Morris hammers this one down very well in his classic work The Remarkable Record of Job, p.40,

"Job suggests not only that the earth was suspended in space but also that it rotates about its north-projecting axis. “Hast thou commanded the morning since they days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth; that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; they stand out as a garment” (Job 38:12-14). Though figurative language, this reflects a true physical process. God is pictured as taking hold of the two ends of the earth’s axis and turning it as if it were a clay cylinder receiving an impression from a seal. The seal toward which the earth is turned, however, is not a metallic pattern. Rather, it is the “dayspring,” evidently the sun fixed in its place.”

The Henry Morris Study Bible,

“38:14 turned. This figurative expression refers to God’s initiation of the earth’s rotation and the day-night cycle. Each night, like a rotating clay cylinder exposing the impressions of the seal, the earth turns to the sun (or “dayspring”), exposing the wicked and their works of the night.”

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Bible Commentary, Vol.2,

“14. Explaining the first clause of v.13, as v.15 does the second clause. As the plastic clay represents the various figures impressed on it by a seal, so the earth, which in the dark was void of all form, when illuminated by the day-spring, presents a variety of forms, hills, valleys, etc. “Turned” (‘turns itself’,’ Hebrew) alludes to the rolling cylinder seal, from one to three inches long, such as is found in Babylon, which leaves the impression on the soft plastic clay, as it is turned about: so the morning light rolling on over the earth. Rich (‘On the Ruins of Babylon’) in Barnes, says, ‘The cuneiform writing of these cylinder seals is reversed, or written from right to left, whereas every other cuneiform writing is to be read from left to right. This can only be accounted for by supposing that they were intended to roll impressions.’ they stand--the forms of beauty unfolded by the dawn stand forth as a garment in which the earth is clad.”

The Bible Knowledge Commentary, 1885 Edition

38:12-15. God’s control of the earth also includes the daily sequence of dawn and darkness. The dawn causes the wicked, who are active at night (cf. 24:14-17; John 3:19), to hide. It is as if the morning light were shaking them out of a blanket (Job 38:13), causing them to be broken in their power (upraised arm, v. 15; cf. 40:9). As the sun comes up the earth’s contours become evident and the wicked no longer have darkness, which they call their light, in which to work. Since Job had nothing to do with establishing or controlling this aspect of Creation how could he question God’s doings now?”

The language of Job 38:12-15 is deeply figurative but the rotation of the earth can be clearly seen as well as the sun’s stationary position in the solar system, making this passage stand out as a garment of light to those who seek the depth of truth which turns in it’s revolution out of the darkness. This passage also helps interpret Job 26:10 “the boundary of light and darkness.”

*Note: figurative language is used to capture a deeper spiritual meaning.
===========================================
Early Church Fathers on the Rotation of the Earth.

The first quotations come from 4th century St.Ambrose from his work called the "Hexameron", from The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage.

“Consequently, the year, too, has the stamp of a world coming to birth, as the splendor of the springtime shines forth all the more clearly because of the winter’s ice and darkness now past. The shape of the circles of years to come has been given form by the first dawn of the world” (p.12).

The circle of years. That sounds like a spinning globe to me.

This next quotation from St.Ambrose is long but necessary for this subject. Here Ambrose defines what immovable earth means while also quoting from a Psalm in which the earth is moving! Ambrose is explaining how the earth abides by the laws ordained for it by God, that it will not fall down (since it is suspended in space, Job 26:7). The earth will not float away. It is a fixed sphere and will not move from its ordained laws.

“How the disposition of the earth therefore depends upon the power of God, you may learn also where it is written: ‘He looketh upon the earth and maketh it tremble,’ and elsewhere: ‘One again I move the earth.’ Therefore, the earth remains immovable not by its balances, but is moved frequently by the nod and free will of God, as Job, too, says: ‘The Lord shaketh it from its foundations, and the pillars thereof tremble.’ And elsewhere: ‘Hell is naked before him and there is no covering for death. He stretched out the north over the empty space and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his clouds. The pillars of heaven fled away and are in dread at his rebuke. By his power the seas are calmed, by his wisdom is struck down the sea-monster, and the gates of heaven fear him.’
By the will of God, therefore, the earth remains immovable. ‘The earth standeth for ever,’ according to Ecclesiastes, yet is moved and nods according to the will of God. It does not therefore continue to exist because based on its own foundation. It does not stay stable because based on its own props. The Lord established it by the support of His will, because ‘in his hand are all the ends of the earth.’ The simplicity of this faith is worth all the proffered proofs.
Let others hold approvingly that the earth never will fall, because it keeps its position in the midst of the world in accordance with nature. They maintain that it is from necessity that the earth remains in its place and is not inclined in another direction, as long as it does not move contrary to nature but in accordance with it. Let them take occasion to magnify the excellence of their divine Artist and eternal Craftsman. What artist is not indebted to Him? ‘Who gave to women the knowledge of weaving or the understanding of embroidery?’ However, I who am unable to comprehend the excellence of His majesty and His art do not entrust myself to theoretical weights and measures. Rather, I believe that all things depend on His will, which is the foundation of the universe and because of which the world endures up to the present” (pp.22-23).

“However, in the circular quality of a sphere these elements are confused and lose the impulse of their course, inasmuch as a sphere is turned around in its orb and hence the elements above change place with the elements beneath and vise-versa” (p.23).

The circular quality of a sphere [Strong’s H2328 - H2329]. This sphere is turned (Job 38:14). We can see how Ambrose is reading and interpreting Scripture.

The next citation from Ambrose’ Hexameron deals with how the skeptics of the Bible claim that the earth cannot be a sphere because water could not remain on it.

“And first of all these interpreters wish to destroy the profound impressions which frequent reading of the Scriptures have made in our mind, maintaining that waters cannot exist above the heavens. That heavenly sphere, they say, is round, with the earth in the middle of it; hence, water cannot stay on that circular surface, from which it needs must flow easily away, falling from a higher to a lower position. For how, they say, can water remain on a sphere when the sphere itself revolves?” (p.52).

In the next quotation Ambrose begins the paragraph with “Scripture points out”, and then cites from Isa.40:22,

“And further on: ‘Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?’ Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (p.231).

Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)

Clement was a 2nd century church father. The following is taken from his writing called The Instructor, which I’m citing from the very last page of Book III entitled To The Paedagous:

“And when the seasons, in their circling course,
Winter and summer, spring and autumn, each
Should come, according to well-ordered plan;
Out of a confused heap who didst create
This ordered sphere, and from the shapeless mass
Of matter didst the universe adorn;--
Grant to me life, and be that life well spent,
Thy grace enjoying; let me act and speak
In all things as Thy Holy Scriptures teach”
(Ante-Nicene Christian Library, Vol.1).

And the Holy Scriptures taught Clement about the sphere of the earth and the circular course (rotation) of the 4 seasons. How do you get 4 seasons on a flat earth anyway?


Clement of Rome ,

"20.The heavens revolve by His arrangement and are subject to Him in peace. 2 Day and night complete the revolution ordained by Him, and neither interferes in the least with the other" (Clement of Rome; Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.1: "Epistle to the Corinthians," Chapter 20, p.22)

 

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Ecclesiastes 1:6

“ The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits” (KJV).

Other Translations:

“The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit” (NKJV).

“The wind goeth toward the South, and compasseth toward the North: the wind goeth round about, and returneth by his circuits” (1599 Geneva Bible).

“The wind blows to the south
and goes around to the north;
around and around goes the wind,
and on its circuits the wind returns” (ESV).

“Gusting to the south,
turning to the north,
turning, turning, goes the wind,
and the wind returns in its cycles” (HCSB).

“It moves to the south,
and then moves around to the north;
the wind continually travels around,
and it keeps turning on its circuit” (MEV).

“The wind blows to the south,
and goes round to the north;
round and round goes the wind,
and on its circuits the wind returns” (RSV).

Strong’s number H5439,

sâbı̂yb saw-beeb’; from 5437; (as noun) a circle, neighbour, or environs; but chiefly (as adv., with or without prep.) around: -- round about [25x]2, on every side [26x], about [24x]2, about [24x], compass [2x], about us [2x], circuits [1x], about them [1x].
Cebiybah, as a noun, means “area round about; circuit.” (1) The word can be used as a noun, but it usually occurs as an adverb or preposition. (2) In 1 Chr.11:8 it refers to the “parts round about”: “And he built the city round about. even from Millo round about. . . .” (3) The word may also be used for “circuits”: “. . . And the wind returneth again according to his circuits” (Ecc.1:6). (4) The first biblical appearance of the word is in Gen.23:17, and it refers to “within the circuit of”: “And the field of Ephron, which was in Machpelah, which was before Mamre, the field, and the cave which was therein, and all the trees that were in the field, that were in all the borders round about, were made sure.” See TWOT--1456b; BDB--686d.”

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
1) places round about, circuit, round about (substantive)
2) in a circuit, a circuit, round about (adverb)
3) in the circuit, from every side (preposition)
https://www.studylight.org/lexicons...

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“1:6 whirleth about continually. This is a remarkable anticipation of the modern discovery of the world’s wind circuits in the global circulation of the atmosphere.”

King Solomon’s observation here leads us to his understanding of the shape of the earth. He knew the earth was round long before the Greeks first thought up the concept in 500 B.C. King Solomon’s reign was from 970 to 931 B.C. The Book of Ecclesiastes is based on Solomon’s own understanding of the world in which he or a student of his wrote down his conclusions in his own personal journal which became one of the Canonized Books of the Bible. Perhaps Solomon read and understood Job. Or perhaps in his wisdom he was keen enough to observe the horizon and the wind circuits and arrive to an accurate conclusion. No matter how you chose to examine the verse, its clearly speaking about a round earth.

 

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Jesus Returns to the Round Earth

Would the Son of God know the shape of the earth? He was, after all, the hand that worked creation. In the Hexameron of Bishop Ambrose, commenting about day 4, Ambrose writes about how Jesus was the hand that worked creation. He continues to describe how the Son made the sun:

“Hear God is speaking: ‘Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth.’
Who says this? God says it. And to whom is He speaking, if not to His Son? Therefore, God the Father says: ‘Let the Sun be made,’ and the Son made the sun, for it was fitting that the ‘Sun of Justice’ should make the sun of the world. He, therefore, brought it to light. He illuminated it and granted it the power of light.”

It was well understood by the early church that Jesus is God in the flesh (the word made flesh (John 1:14).
But did Jesus Christ know the earth is round? Absolutely! Now pay close attention to the details of this passage in Luke 17:30-34:

“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left” (NIV'84).

Here Jesus is speaking about the great harvest of the earth, or Day of God's wrath (Judgement Day). In modern terminology some could consider this an invasion of planet earth (Matt.9:37-38; 13:30, 37-43; Mk.4:29; Lk.10:2; Rev.14:14-16). This great Day of Judgement, which is the return of Jesus Christ, is described as an event the entire world will see. Now notice in verse 31 how Jesus returns "on that day," and then in verse 34 he says "on that night." Did Jesus contradict himself here? No, there is no contradiction. Jesus returns with a multitude of angels who surround the earth. On one side of the world it will be day, and on the other side it will be night! This is amazing insight on the roundness of our earth from Jesus Who created it. Jesus knew how to drop a subtle hint to future readers about the shape of the earth. But without common sense we cannot understand anything.

 

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Flat Earthers Challenge To Isaiah 40:22 -- REFUTED!!

So many flat earthers try to be the mind of Isaiah and say if Isaiah meant spinning ball then he would have used the Hebrew word dur which flat earthers claim mean ball. Then they go on to say that the earth is flat like a plate in the Bible and Isaiah's use of the Hebrew word chuwg means a flat plate. So lets look into this claim and see if what flat earthers say is true.


A Challenge to Isaiah 40:22

There are some online articles which ask the question as to why Isaiah didn’t use the Hebrew word “dur” which carries the meaning of “ball.” This question, however, is irrelevant because we cannot go back in time and ask Isaiah this question. But wait, we can, Strong’s H1754 does define dur as a circle, ball or pile (or to move in a circle, surround, TWOT). The verse often cited by atheists is Isa.22:18 in which they ask why Isaiah didn’t use the word dur? More interesting is TWOT’s explanation of the word #418. The word was used to mean “to heap up” or “to pile something.” It can be used to mean “go in a circle.” But the word is more closely associated to dor (#1887, New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Vo.1) which is used to mean “lap in a race, cycle of time, lifetime.” Nothing I had read would lead me to the conclusion that it would be used to describe the shape of the earth. I wanted to type the lexicons in but those very long explanations for the word dur. So anyone who can get their hands on the Strong's or TWOT are free to see how there is nothing in the explanation given that would lead us to believe Isaiah would use the word dur over chuwg.

My Challenge To Flat Earthers

But I have a question for flat earther: Why didn’t Isaiah use the Hebrew word “machabath” (Strong’s H4227)?

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

"4227. machabath, makh-ab-ath'; from the same as 2281; a pan for baking in:--pan [5x]. See TWOT -- 600b; BDB -- 292b, 561d”

TWOT 600b:

“flat plate, pan, or griddle (e.g. Lev. 2:5; 6:14; Ezk 4:3)”.

Since flat earthers like to cite from TWOT, why can’t they find the right word which better describes their flat plate model of the earth they designed for the Biblical view of the earth? Surely this word would have been better than chuwg? It could have been translated “...the pan of the earth” or “the griddle of the earth" or "the plate of the earth." But it wasn't. There is another word which means flat.

Strong’s H8478 is found in Joshua 6:5, 20; which is the Hebrew word tachath which was used to describe the walls of Jericho “that the wall fell down flat “ (Joshua 6:20). The word translated flat is tachath.


So why wasn’t another Hebrew word which means flat used in Isaiah 40:22? Why couldn’t the verse just literally translate “the flatness of the earth”? Surely if the earth was flat and plate shaped Isaiah would have used the right word to communicate that message. The word translated circle does not mean flat as the earth is circular in shape. The definition of round carries a broad meaning in English.

 

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Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.)

Josephus was a Jewish historian who wrote the Antiquity of the Jews in 70 A.D.

“After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts; and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews” (Antiquity 1:30).

Josephus is describing how God, on the second day, placed a crystalline around the earth. Now it can be said that God could have "placed the heaven over" the flat earth. But it can also be said that God "placed the heaven" over the round earth. But one thing that cannot happen is the firmament cannot be placed around the whole world if it is flat. The firmament cannot be placed around a half-sphere, as there is no round to go around. So its clear that Jewish Historian is speaking about God placing the firmament around the entire globe of the earth. There is no mention of solid sky by Josephus either.

 

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Explaining the Circling Sun in the Bible

One of the things mentioned frequently by flat earthers is the movement of the sun in the Bible. Youtube videos and online columns from flat earthers are plastered all over the Internet. I have spent 8 years thinking about these verses of contention. During that time I also researched those divine nuggets of truth in the Bible; and those which reveal the Divine fingerprint of God in prophecy. Having spent a great deal of time studying prophecy and dedicated in prayer to the truth of these things of God, I eventually came to what I am convinced is a sound and trustworthy conclusion.
There are 3 major verses of contention but I will cite from 4 as to settle the matter once and for all now that we are centuries past from the Galileo incident. It will be worth noting that the subject of the moving sun in the Bible has never been an easy issue for Christian writers to answer. Many are fearful, and reasonably so, of facing harsh judgment from God if indeed their words be used against them on Judgment Day. And you better believe I have been nothing but cautious about my approach to this matter due to my own fear of facing harsh judgment from God if indeed my words are proven false. So many sincere theologians fear such judgment from God as I do if our words be considered false testimony against the Holy Scriptures. Therefore, I have taken the utmost care to tackle this issue to assure my soul that I may arrive to a true verdict. After 8 years of research I feel it is necessary to examine the verses of contention and to explain them in the most honest and truthful manner possible based on my knowledge of prophecy.

1. Joshua 10: 1-13

Ҧ Then spake Joshua to the Lord, in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stay thou in Gibeon, and thou Moon, in the valley of Aijalon.
And the Sun abode, and the moon stood still, until the people avenged themselves upon their enemies: (is not this written in the book of Jasher?) so the Sun abode in the midst of the heaven, and hasted not to go down for a whole day” (Joshua 10: 1-13, 1599 Geneva Bible).

This passage has been used since the Galileo incident to prove how the sun moves around the earth....around the sphere of the earth, that is. The prophecy, coming from a lost Book of the Bible, presumably lost in one of the burning libraries of history, is hard to examine because it no longer exist. All that remains of Jasher is what is quoted in the Bible and the $25.00 forgery you can buy which contains the same account cited in Joshua 10 which proves its a modern forgery, probably a Mormon forgery. The prophecy, however, is about a long day, twice the natural length. This prophecy fulfills here in Joshua 10 and there is ample historical proofs from various ancient nations from the time of Joshua which either speak of such a day, or, as in countries like Mexico etc, speak about a long night twice the natural length. The sun that stops is only from the human perception. There are many who say that the sun stopping is an expression, and this may indeed be true about the passage. But even in the event this sun which stops in the middle of the sky is to be taken literally, as I believe is most likely to be the case here, it is not God telling Moses (presumably the author of Jasher) that the sun moves or stops, but comes from the perspective of Moses or whoever wrote the Book of Jasher. Again, the prophecy is about a day twice the natural length which was a miracle and one that God made happen. How exactly God made this happen is unknown. Perhaps God had slowed down the earth’s rotation or even froze time somehow. This cannot be explained in strict terms of modern science since this miracle is one done by God.

2. Habakkuk 3:11

“The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the bright shining of thy spears” (Habakkuk 3:11, 1599 Geneva Bible).

Here we have nothing more than a reflection of the day twice the natural length in which Joshua was assured victory by God Who fought for Israel. Nowhere in this passage are we led to believe that a moving sun is something taught by God. Though the prophecy may refer to God slowing or stopping time for the exception for life on earth. How He did this is beyond our human comprehension.

3. Psalm 19:4-6

“Their line is gone forth through all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world: in them hath he set a tabernacle for the Sun. Which cometh forth as a bridegroom out of his chamber, and rejoiceth like a mighty man to run his race. His going out is from the end of the heaven, and his compass is unto the ends of the same, and none is hid from the heat thereof” (Psalm 19:4-6, 1599 Geneva Bible).

This particular passage carries significant spiritual meaning. Now, to be reasonably fair to the passage, it is not clear if this passage is even dealing with the sun literally moving. In fact, the expression “he set a tabernacle for the Sun” seems to indicate the sun is stationary. However, if taken literally, this stationary sun goes from stationary to mobile when it is compared to a mighty man running his race. But this can also be a figurative attempt to convey the sun rising and setting, as a psalm is a poem and poems often carry figurative language. This passage is also most likely in connection to ‘The Sun of Righteousness’ in Malachi 4:2, which means the light of Christ will be as the Sun shining in on the darkness of the world with healing in its wings. This light of Christ, figuratively compared to the sun in verses 4-6, shall go through the whole earth with the message that brings light, healing and justice to the inhabitants of the earth. Thus Psalm 19:4 is cited by the Apostle Paul in connection to spreading the word of the Gospel:

“But I say, have they not heard? Yes, indeed:

“Their voice went into all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world” (Rom.10:18, MEV).

When David speaks of the tabernacle for the sun, this is to be understood as the dayspring (KJV) of Job 38:12. In Job 38:12-15, the morning light exposes the wickedness of those who walk in darkness. But in Psalm 19:5-6, the rays of the sun make their way throughout the whole earth, coming with healing to the righteous (Malachi 4:2) and condemnation for the wicked (Job 38:15; Malachi 4:1). All this is a figurative language which is there to convey a deep spiritual meaning. The sun represents the light of Truth which comes from the Son who is Jesus Christ. This is why Paul cites from Psalm 19:4 when addressing his fellow Jews. The dayspring (Job 38:12) and the tabernacle for the sun (Psalm 19:4) view the sun as stationary, according to the natural laws ordained for it if we are to interpret this literally.

So the psalm should not be taken in a literal, carnal manner, but interpreted from a strict spiritual perspective. Comparing the light of Christ to the brightness of the sun would be the best way, from the human perspective, to describe the awesome power of God’s justice and salvation, as well as the burning heat against the wicked who refused God’s free gift of eternal salvation.

4. Ecclesiastes 1:5

The entire Book of Ecclesiastes is Solomon’s conclusion of his life’s journey. The Book contains a wealth of wisdom which even today one will do well to learn from. Even though Solomon fell deeply into idolatry and embraced pagan gods and did what he pretty much wanted to do; he did, in the end, realize that in his error he accomplished nothing more than chasing after the wind. His final conclusion to the meaning of life was to love and obey the Lord and keep His Commandments. Ecclesiastes is not a Book of Prophecy, but contains King Solomon’s personal testimony according to his own perspective. This does not mean the Book is rubbish and unworthy to be read. On the contrary, his wise testimony should be read by everyone!

“The sun riseth, and the sun goeth down, and draweth to his place where he riseth”(Ecc.1:5, 1599 Geneva Bible).

While this verse has been used to describe the sun rising and setting, it has also been used to describe the sun circling the earth. This sun, as literally read, draweth to his place where he riseth. If indeed we are to take this literally, and I believe that to be the case with this verse, then the sun is circling the earth. I simply do not see any sign of figurative speech in this verse, and believe that this verse is to be interpreted as a sun circling the earth. God did not reveal to the Jews all there is to know about scientific mysteries. The Jews, including all the Biblical writers, were not gods nor were they God. They were just as subject to human err as you and I are. God revealed to them only what He thought would be of greater importance, such as the salvation of the world. It is only by God’s wisdom that He did reveal some modern scientific knowledge to His servants so that we, the future readers, will know that He is the Lord. But we also must know that the Bible itself is not the object of worship as it is not God. God’s servants, the Prophets, were people, ordinary people, who were chosen by God to deliver His message to the people of earth.
We must understand that the Bible was never meant to be a science textbook. The message in the Bible is there to secure our souls for a more important afterlife. Such content demands more attention than physical science. God left science up for people to discover, as God wanted mankind to explore His creation and enjoy what He had made. But many will automatically ask the question: Well if the sun goes around the earth in the Bible, what else in the Bible contains scientific errors? A reasonable question to ask. I have arrived to the conclusion, which I firmly believe is the correct conclusion, that there is only one scientific blunder in the Bible (Ecc.1:5) and that deals with the circuit of the sun. But this err in the Bible has absolutely no impact on the infallible message the Lord has given to us on earth. Perhaps, when Solomon fell into idolatry, his view of the sun was shaped by pagan philosophers of his time.
Lastly, I firmly believe that God revealed the spherical shape of the earth to Job first, which Solomon well understood, and then God delivers that message again to Isaiah. There is no question that Isaiah 40:22 is straight out prophecy from the LORD. God may have revealed a stationary sun to Job, but what was revealed could not have been understood until the modern era. So the Bible does teach a stationary sun (Job 38:12; Psalm 19:4) and a mobile sun (Ecc.1:5), depending on whether you are reading Job or Ecclesiastes. But one thing we can be certain about is how the earth is a sphere and, in the Bible, the sun travels around this sphere in Ecc.1:5 . So even an err of a circling sun in Ecclesiates proves the earth is round! I do believe God searches for humble hearts and does not like a man so proud as to believe he is above the knowledge of God.
Yes, I believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God and I hold this belief very dearly and do not stray from it. My reasons for writing this section were to increase faith and not to decrease it. For when people are told for centuries that the sun in the Bible is stationary in all verses, and then see Solomon speaking about a circling sun, then the Bible student reads that, this can cause one to lose faith over something so small. Its small because it has no impact on the Message. Most importantly: Think with a clear mind and do not let your mind dwell on sensations which are demonic and unnecessary to dwell upon. The unstable mind will dwell on little things and turn little things into major issues. But the Lord wants us to keep a level head and a clear mind, and not to live in conspiracy and in constant suspicion. Just keep your eyes set on Christ and stay in the Word daily and you will be saved for your faith. But when you lose faith over little matters that mean nothing, you lose your soul for an eternity over nothing that mattered.

 

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Clement of Rome (35-99 A.D.) -- Globe Earth!

Outline Of Subjects

(a) Who was Clement of Rome?
(b) Origen explains Clement's Comment
(c) St.Clement vs.St.Augustine Bout

(d) Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)
(e) Back To Clement of Rome
(f) An Old Indian Chief Speaks about Washington


Who was Clement of Rome? He was the first Successor of the Apostles, consecrated by the Apostle Peter to lead the church of Rome. The peak of his ministry was from 50--97 A.D. He was Bishop of Rome from 88 A.D to the day of his death in 99 A.D. clement knew the Apostles of Christ and is the most important Successors of the Apostles of the church. Therefore his words carry much authority, some argue his words may be Scripture they carry so much weight!

Clement of Rome is mentioned in the Bible (Philippians.4:3),

"And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life."

St.Paul mentions Clement as being written in the Book of Life. No small claim here. Some theologians attribute the author of Hebrews to Clement as it is his grammar and style of writing. Clement's authority as a Successor surpasses all 21st century scholars. Not one scholar can disagree with Clement without falling into heresy. His mention in Php.4:3 by St.Paul obviously placed him in high esteem. He is the first of the early church fathers after the Apostles of Christ. His words my not be Scripture, but they weigh heavy on how Scripture is interpreted. Both quotations are taken from The Ancient Christian Writers series Vol.1. His Epistle To The Corinthians was written in 97 A.D. which is only one or two years after the Apostle John penned Revelation!

“Thus, by His transcendent might He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible understanding He ordered them: the earth He separated from the water now encircling it, and firmly grounded it on the unshakable foundation of His own will” (33:3).

This is referring to a spherical earth. Furthermore, this comment by Clement is referring to the establishment of the heavens and the earth before dry land appeared. This means that only water would have been seen encircling the globe. The next comment, though indirectly spoken, confirms the sphericity of the earth.

“The ocean, impassable for men, and the worlds beyond it are governed by the same decrees of the Master” (20:8).

Here Clement is speaking about antipodes which, in his time, was defined as people who lived on the other side of the earth, or who plant their footsteps opposite to ours. This is what Clement is speaking about. St.Augustine had trouble believing Clement and others about people living on the opposite side of the world. But as it turns out Clement of Rome was correct (Clement 1, Augustine 0).
Back in the 1st century, crossing the oceans to other worlds was not by any means an easy feat and even seemingly impossible. But nevertheless, God still made the seemingly impossible very possible during the rise of Christendom when ship building would become more advanced and eventually Christians would make it over to the other side of the earth.

Origen Explains Clement’s Comment:

“Clement indeed, a disciple of the apostles, mentions those whom the Greeks call “people of the opposite earth,” and speaks of other parts of the world which none of our people can reach, nor can any of those who live there cross over to us; and these parts themselves he called “worlds,” when he says, “The ocean is impassable to men, and the worlds beyond it are governed by the same ordinances of God the Ruler” (On First Principles, Chapter III verse 6).

Origen (185-254 A.D.)

Origen of Alexandria was born in the 2nd century but his ministry would make him a 3rd century man. He is an Ante-Nicene church father who wrote On First Principles, which is the very first book on Theology ever written by a Christian. The following quotation is taken from the John C. Cavadini edition.

“Certainly what some say of this world, that it is corruptible because it was made, and yet does not go to corruption because the will of God, who made it and preserves it from being mastered by corruption, is stronger and more powerful than corruption, may more rightly be believed of that world which we have above called a “fixed” sphere, because by the will of God it is in no way “subject to corruption” (cf.Rom 8:20, 21), for the reason that it has not admitted the causes of corruption.”

So we also know Origen knew the Bible taught spherical earth.

Now combine the first quotation from Clement of Rome with his comment about antipodes of opposite earth and you have a clear view of how other early church fathers would have also understood both Clement and the Scriptures. Who you gonna believe: 20th century liberal scholars or 1st a century church father appointed by the Apostle Peter? Clearly the Apostles and earliest of church fathers knew what chuwg meant and how it would translate into other languages. It never translated as a flat earth to them so why would we consider the petty word definitions of 20th & 21st century liberal scholars whose only motive was to appease evolutionists?

St.Clement vs. St.Augustine bout

St.Augustine indirectly mentions Clement's statement confirming its meaning. This is found in his book City Of God, Book XVI chapter 8. I will quote this from two translations.

"9. The story of the 'antipodes'
As for the fabled 'antipodes', men, that is, who live on the other side of earth, where the sun rises when it sets for us, men who plant their footsteps opposite ours, there is no rational ground for such a belief. The upholders of this notion do not assert that they have discovered it from scientific evidence; they base their conjecture on a kind of priori reasoning. They argue that the earth is suspended within the sphere of the heavens, so that the lowest point and the middle point of the world are identical; and this leads them to suppose that the other half of the world which lies below this part cannot be devoid of human inhabitants. They ignore the fact that even if the world is supposed to be a spherical mass, or if some rational proof should be offered for the superstition, it does not follow that the land on that side is not covered by 'the gathering together of the waters'. Again, even if the land were uncovered, it does not immediately follow that it has human beings on it. For there is no untruth of any kind in Scripture, whose reliability in the account of past events is attested by the fulfillment of its prophecies for the future; and it would be too ridiculous to suggest that some men might have sailed from our side of the earth to the other, arriving there after crossing the vast expanse of ocean, so that the human race should be established there also by the descendants of the first man." (St.Augustine, "City of God," Penguin Classics, p.664).

Now for another translation,

"9. Whether we are to believe in the Antipodes
But as to the fable that there are Antipodes, that is to say, men on the opposite side of the earth, where the sun rises when it sets to us, men who walk with their feet opposite to ours, that is on no ground credible. And, indeed, it is not affirmed that this has been learned by historical knowledge, but by scientific conjecture, on the ground that the earth is suspended within the concavity of the sky, and that it has as much room on one side of it as on the other : hence they say that the part which is beneath must also be inhabited. But they do not remark that, although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that the other side is bare of water ; nor even, though it be bare, does it immediately follow that it is peopled. For Scripture, which proves the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishments of its prophecies, gives no false information ; and it is too absurd to say that some men might have taken ship and traversed the whole wide ocean, and crossed from this side of the world to the other, and that thus even the inhabitants of that distant region are descended from that first man." (St.Augustine, "City of God," Book XVI, chapter 9, p.532; translated by Marcus Dods, D.D.; The Modern Library, NY).

This is a very hard passage from Augustine to follow, I admit. Its in context with an historical view of Antediluvian and early Post-diluvian people. In that discussion Augustine does well. But in between all this there is this chapter in which he stumbled due to his disagreement with earliest church father, Clement of Rome. Not every word Augustine says is false, but his disagreement over antipodes has given Clement the room to land the TKO punch on Augustine, laying him out flat cold.
Augustine is one of the greatest Christian minds known to history. His works are valuable to us even today. But no man is perfect and all men have trouble mentally comprehending certain issues. This antipode issue was a stumbling block to a great many wise men.
Also do not be fooled into thinking Augustine did not know the earth was round. His disagreement is with antipodes and not the shape of the earth itself. It is very clear that Augustine believed in a spherical earth. The following quotation is taken from Augustine’s book The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Vol.1. (Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.41).

“But if the light first created enveloped the earth on all sides, whether it was motionless or travelling round, it could not be followed anywhere by night, because it did not vacate any place to make room for night. But was it made on one side, so that as it travelled it would permit the night to follow after from the other? Although water still covered all the earth, there was nothing to prevent the massive watery sphere from having day on one side by the presence of light, and on the other side, night by the absence of light. Thus, in the evening, darkness would pass to that side from which light would be turning to the other” (p.33).

Here Augustine is speaking about the light God created. He speaks with confidence concerning his own knowledge of the shape of the earth. He sees an earth that is spherical and rotating. He may not of had all the knowledge he would have wanted to know, but the shape of the earth is spoken with confidence.

Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)

There is also another Clement...Clement of Alexandria. This Clement is also an early church father from the 2nd century.

The following is taken from his writing called The Instructor, which I’m citing from the very last page of Book III entitled To The Paedagous:

“And when the seasons, in their circling course,
Winter and summer, spring and autumn, each
Should come, according to well-ordered plan;
Out of a confused heap who didst create
This ordered sphere, and from the shapeless mass
Of matter didst the universe adorn;--
Grant to me life, and be that life well spent,
Thy grace enjoying; let me act and speak
In all things as Thy Holy Scriptures teach”
(Ante-Nicene Christian Library, Vol.1).

And the Holy Scriptures taught Clement about the sphere of the earth and the circular course (rotation) of the 4 seasons. How do you get 4 seasons on a flat earth anyway?

Scripture was the basis for understanding fundamental things like the shape of the earth. Such a subject required no special skills back then in interpreting as it does for English speaking people today. Augustine simply messed up with his disdain for the antipode comment made by Clement which he indirectly references, Yet Origen understood it and knew it was also from Scripture. So the Ante-Nicene fathers score on Augustine (a Nicene father). Columbus seals the deal confirming Clement's understanding of Scripture to be the most trusted.

Back To Clement of Rome.

"“The ocean, impassable for men, and the worlds beyond it are governed by the same decrees of the Master” (20:8).

Here Clement is worried that neither he or his brothers and sisters in Christ will be able to reach the antipodes who live on opposite earth. In his first comment Clement expresses the round shape of the planet, but in this comment he includes people who live on the other side of earth. His frustration here deals with the lack of ship building technology of his time as no one known in his day had a ship that could sail the vast expanse of the ocean to reach those of North, Central and South America. But he does conclude that those peoples are loved by God and watched over and how God will judge these people fairly if they follow the natural law God set forth for them (Rom.2:14-15) and honor the God of gods (the Great Spirit in the case of native Americans) even though they know Him not. Clement wants to bring them the good news of Jesus Christ to the people of opposite earth.

An Old Indian Chief Speaks about Washington.

This is one of my favorite accounts of President George Washington which is often cited in many discussions on social media. This event happens before Washington becomes the 1st President of the United States. This account is taken from "America's God And Country: Encyclopedia Of Quotations" by William J. Federer, p.636-637,

//"Fifteen years later, Washington and Dr.Craik, a close friend of his from his youth, were traveling through those same woods near the Ohio River and Great Kanawha River. They were met by an old Indian chief, who addressed Washington through an interpreter:

"I am chief and ruler over my tribes. My influence extends to the waters of the great lakes and to the far blue mountains.
I have traveled a long and weary path that I might see the young warrior of the great battle. It was on the day when the white man's blood mixed with the streams of the forests that I first beheld this chief [Washington].
I called to my young men and said, mark yon tall and daring warrior? He is not of the red-coat tribe - he hath an Indian's wisdom, and his warriors fight as we do - himself alone exposed.
Quick, let your aim be certain, and he dies. Our rifles were leveled, rifles which, but for you, knew not how to miss - 'twas all in vain, a power mightier far than we, shielded you.
Seeing you were under the special guardianship of the Great Spirit, we immediately ceased fire at you. I am old and soon shall be gathered to the great council fire of my fathers in the land of shades, but ere I go, there is something bids me speak in the voice or prophecy:
Listen! The Great Spirit protects that man [pointing at Washington], and guides his destinies--he will become the chief of nations, and a people yet unborn will hail him as the founder of a mighty empire. I am come to pay homage to the man who is the particular favor favorite of Heaven, and who can die in battle."

The famous Indian warrior, who was in that battle, said:

"Washington was never born to be killed by a bullet! I had seventeen fair fires at him with my rifle, and after all could not bring him to the ground."//

So what we read here further confirms Clement's words about how the people of opposite earth "are governed by the same decrees of the Master” (God). All this was understood by Clement 2000 years before Columbus discovered the new world!

Finally, Clement of Rome in the same chapter he indirectly mentioned antipodes also says the earth revolves (which means it rotates):

"20.The heavens revolve by His arrangement and are subject to Him in peace. Day and night complete the revolution ordained by Him, and neither interferes in the least with the other" (Clement of Rome; Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.1: "Epistle to the Corinthians," Chapter 20, p.22).

 

[FEZZILLA]

This is my favorite post on the subject.


The Forgotten "Round World" Verses of Scripture.

I will start this by quoting one verse from the four old English translations of the Bible that contain them. Other verses after that I will just quote from one of those four translations to keep it simple for the reader. This post will also feature various lexicons which prove Tyndale was correct.

Psalms 89:11 (v.12 in some Bibles):

1535 Coverdale Bible,

"The heaues are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundacio of the roude worlde and all that therin is."

1537 Matthew-Tyndale Bible,

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is."

1539 Great Bible,

"The heauens are thyne, the earth also is thyne: thou hast layed the foundacyon of the rounde worlde, and all that therin is."

1568 Bishop's Bible,

"The heauens are thine, the earth also is thine: thou hast layde the foundation of the rounde worlde, and of all the plentie that is therin."

Psalm 18:15,

1539 Great Bible:

"The sprynges of waters were sene, & the foundacions of the round worlde were discouered at thy chydinge, O Lorde, at the blastynge of the breth of thy displeasure."

Proverbs 8:31,

1568 Bishop's Bible:

"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men."

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Hebrew Lexicons:

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Make sure to see Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h8398

----------------------------------------------------------------
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

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New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."

The meaning is not lost and the lexicons prove this point for us. Even in the KJV it is speaking about the complete fullness of the world God created. But Tyndale, being the brilliant scholar he was, knew how important "round world" would be to English speaking readers, as the text does imply the whole of the earth, and its round shape (globe).
=======================================
A Breakdown of תֵּבֵל têbêl:

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth"--AND-- "In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

So where do we see flat earth?

 

[FEZZILLA]

Did The Greeks Influence The Christians?

Atheists make the claim that the Christians knew the earth was round only because the Greeks told them. This lie is well refuted by the Old Testament which the early Christians read and knew very well.

There are several verses in the Bible dating as far back as 2000 B.C., 1000 B.C., 900., B.C. and 700 B.C. which state the earth is round. All these round earth verses antedate the first recorded Greek thought in 500 B.C.

Here is a general overlay of round earth verses in the Bible. This does not cover all round earth verses but the dates in history in which these verses were written from.

Job 26:10 (2000 B.C.),

"He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end" (KJV).

"He has circled the waters with boundaries, until the day and night come to an end" (MEV)

“But if the light first created enveloped the earth on all sides, whether it was motionless or travelling round, it could not be followed anywhere by night, because it did not vacate any place to make room for night. But was it made on one side, so that as it travelled it would permit the night to follow after from the other? Although water still covered all the earth, there was nothing to prevent the massive watery sphere from having day on one side by the presence of light, and on the other side, night by the absence of light. Thus, in the evening, darkness would pass to that side from which light would be turning to the other” (St.Augustine, "The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Vol.1." Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.41, p.33).

“After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts; and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews” ( Jewish Historian Josephus, Antiquity 1:30).

https://wikidiff.com/compass/encompass

Psalm 89:11 (1000 B.C.),

""The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (Matthew's Bible).

Proverbs 8:31 (900 B.C.),

"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men" (Bishop's Bible).

"It moves to the south,
and then moves around to the north;
the wind continually travels around,
and it keeps turning on its circuit" (MEV).

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
1) places round about, circuit, round about (substantive)
2) in a circuit, a circuit, round about (adverb)
3) in the circuit, from every side (preposition)
https://www.studylight.org/lexicons...

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“1:6 whirleth about continually. This is a remarkable anticipation of the modern discovery of the world’s wind circuits in the global circulation of the atmosphere.”

Isaiah 40:22 (700 B.C.),

" It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (KJV).

Oldest reading of this verse I found comes from 4th century St.Ambrose reading from Isaiah 40:22.

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon (coded with the Strong's number system),

H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”

Matthew Henry's Commentary

"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."

Anyone who has read the church fathers will see how Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and other early church fathers challenged the Greeks on their worldview. The early church was at odds with traditional Greek paganism. Though it was rarely that the shape of the earth was debated, but the early church did debate pagans who ridiculed the Bible for teaching sphere earth. St.Ambrose mentions these skeptics who ridiculed Scripture for teaching that the earth was a sphere. In fact, this ridicule is being rehashed today by flat earthers.

“And first of all these interpreters wish to destroy the profound impressions which frequent reading of the Scriptures have made in our mind, maintaining that waters cannot exist above the heavens. That heavenly sphere, they say, is round, with the earth in the middle of it; hence, water cannot stay on that circular surface, from which it needs must flow easily away, falling from a higher to a lower position. For how, they say, can water remain on a sphere when the sphere itself revolves?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.52).

So there is no doubt that the earliest historical records which mention a round, globular earth that is suspended in space over nothing and rotating while the sun (the dayspring) is stationary, is first mentioned in the Holy Bible long before the very first Greek though of a spherical earth was ever mentioned in history.
I read one online article from an atheist trying hard to refute flat earthers using history. He was unfair with his treatment of the Bible (which is why people like him lose debates to flat earthers) and he claimed the Babylonians and Egyptians knew the earth was a sphere long before the Bible was written. I have the oldest works of Sumer & Babylon and I found nowhere in any of my large collection of Sumerian and Babylonian documents where it is said the earth is round. But I did find flat earth beliefs in Babylon. This atheists never did reference any of the Babylonian or Egyptian manuscripts which said the earth is a sphere. I'v also been interested in finding them but none have surfaced. But could there be some real ancient works out there, older than the Bible, that express the spherical shape of the earth? There might be. Isaiah 40:21 does say:

Isaiah 40:21 Modern English Version (MEV),
21 Have you not known?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

So perhaps it was once known that the earth was round. Though since mankind had fallen into idolatry and worshiped false gods, their knowledge began to degenerate from the knowledge that Adam and Noah and his sons had before mankind's rebellion at Babel. Isaac Newton also agrees:

"And if natural Philosophy in all its Parts, by pursuing this Method, shall at length be perfected, the Bounds of Moral Philosophy will also be enlarged. For so far as we can know by natural Philosophy what is the first Cause, what Power he has over us, and what Benefits we receive from him, so far our Duty towards him, as well as that towards one another, will appear to us by the Light of Nature. And no doubt, if the Worship of false Gods had not blinded the Heathen, their moral Philosophy would have gone farther than to the four Cardinal Virtues; and instead of teaching the Transmigration of Souls, and to worship the Sun and Moon, and dead Heroes, they would have taught us to worship our true Author and Benefactor, as their Ancestors did under the Government of Noah and his Sons before they corrupted themselves." ~ Isaac Newton, "Opticks" (closing statement).

When mankind separates themselves from God, both their morality and their knowledge degenerated. But when mankind draws closer to God through Jesus Christ, both their morality and their knowledge shall be greatly increased.

There is more I could post on this topic but this is a solid collection of truths which proves the Bible teaches globe earth. I have more posts on my Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/AnsweringFlatEarthLies/

Any questions on this topic feel free to ask

 

[Bloopy]

These days the flat Earth thing seems to be about 99% internet humour, with the remaining 1% being people who are attracted to believing conspiracy theories. Much like I was attracted to theories about aliens visiting Earth when I was younger. It's no surprise if a portion of that 1% is Christian and tries to use the Bible to support their flat Earth belief. It's amusing that you see yet another thing as being a grand conspiracy to attack the Bible.

Also, even if some passages do inadvertently seem to imply the Earth is flat, there's no shame in that. It's probably safe to say that whoever wrote them down wasn't intending to provide ammo one way or the other for the argument still raging on a couple of millennia later!

 

[FEZZILLA]

These days the flat Earth thing seems to be about 99% internet humour, with the remaining 1% being people who are attracted to believing conspiracy theories. Much like I was attracted to theories about aliens visiting Earth when I was younger. It's no surprise if a portion of that 1% is Christian and tries to use the Bible to support their flat Earth belief. It's amusing that you see yet another thing as being a grand conspiracy to attack the Bible.

Also, even if some passages do inadvertently seem to imply the Earth is flat, there's no shame in that. It's probably safe to say that whoever wrote them down wasn't intending to provide ammo one way or the other for the argument still raging on a couple of millennia later!

I've spent quite a bit of time debating these flat earthers. I know a man who used to be a very close friend of mine for many years who, for reasons of envy and self-conceit, because an apostate from the Christian faith and now very heavy into Satanism. He chants "Death to Israel!" now and supports Hamas and Hezbollah and calls Islamic terrorism justified. He also loves conspiracy theory which is what influenced him to leave the Christian faith as I was there and witnessed all the transitional stages of how he was brainwashed. But when a person is gullible and envious of others, but also being a complete narcissist, facts don't matter. He's the first person who made me take a much closer look into the flat earther movement. Sure enough, it was a movement led by Satanists, anarchists, and other radical lefties who impersonate being a Christian while they impugn the Scriptures. The movement is a masquerade and not internet humor. If it was internet humor people might think its funny and it would hilariously funny if it was not aimed at brainwashing Christians and leading them into the occult.
So I dropped everything I was doing and hit the books. What I discovered, which I have posted here, is that there is no flat earth tradition in the Bible. All I found was 2000+ years of round/globe/sphere earth readings from the Bible. If the ancients read flat earth from the Bible they would have expressed this in their readings of Scripture and their comments on doctrinal issues....but they didn't. The Bible itself is very clear on the issue but manipulators will be manipulators and so the best way to deal with such people is to hit them hard with 2000+ years of Biblical theology as flat earthers are only using 200 years of liberal theology which is refuted by greater known facts.
So the movement is mostly all atheists/humanists, Satanists/witches and muslims (Qur'an does teach flat earth and there is a flat earth tradition in Islam). Its all a come-on, a masquerade, in attempts to brainwash as many Christians as possible into atheism and the occult before election 2020. Yeah, its politically driven as well. Having the knowledge I do of the occult I wasn't fooled by the phony display of piety. This same exact attempt to infiltrate the church was done by the Nazis where they succeeded in taking them over. Likewise the flat earthers aim to snatch ecclesiastical authority from the leaders of the Christian faith and hand it over to the Marxists and Satanists (both of the same spirit).

If the Bible teaches us the earth is flat, and these passages are prophetic texts, then that proves the Bible is not the word of God but that its the opinions of uninformed ancient men. This means there is no eternal life and all people die eternally. All that just by finding one flat earth verse in the Bible. Now there is one verse in the Bible which I do believe teaches the sun moves around the earth. Fortunately that verse is not a prophetic verse but merely what Solomon believed---a belief he most likely picked up from his pagan friends when he had fallen into idolatry. Solomon's father David did not believe the sun moved but was stationary. Psalm 19 is a prophetic text even though some say its not. But it was quoted by the Apostles which means it was prophetic. Job 38 is God speaking and God says the sun is stationary and the earth rotates. So the passage, though very spiritually figurative, is no doubt a prophetic text. So the only err in the Bible I was found is Ecc.1:5 which is clearly not a prophetic text. Some say the verse is figurative and they may be right, but I do not read it that way. There is both a tradition of a moving sun and stationary sun among the early church fathers. That tells me some churches fathers did not understand the figurative verses in which a stationary sun was literally mentioned, and some followed only the most literal and plain verse which is the moving sun. Still others know Solomon's verse was not prophet whiling seeing the literal side of figurative passages which mention the sun fixed in its place. Once the figurative passages are understood, then we walk away with a literal meaning.

In my 15 years of diving deep into the mines of Scripture I have not found anything in the Bible that would lead me to believe it was just a fictional work of ancient men with delusional minds. I know what a delusional mind is as I know enough delusional people to know how they think. What I have found is something that transcends the wisdom of this world, a stumbling block for the proud, and a knowledge capable a leading mankind kind into much greater endeavors such as modern science. And while it was the Bible's influence on Christians that lead western civilization to modern science, it was all in prophecy that such things would take place. So I value prophecy over all things, and do not see science as authoritative as the word of God. I have zero faith in evolution theory and know for a fact its a scam -- the biggest scam of the 20th century!

The view of the shape of the earth does matter and it matters a great deal. The Holy Bible is no a message of this world. Therefore God must know the shape of the earth in order to be God. His chosen do not have to know all things...but God does. For if God is not Who the Bible says He Is, then the Bible is not God's word and it cannot thereby even be called Holy. For man's word is worthless. We've seen how far man's word goes and millions of people are mercilessly slaughtered whenever we follow man's word. But God is no man that His word be defiled with corruption. For us Christians the Bible is our guide through this lifetime on earth. It was given to mankind so that we humans might know God and receive eternal life. Human salvation is the main message of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If this message is no true, then atheism is true. And if atheism is true, then there is no meaning or purpose to our lives and murder, rape, child molesting, hate, war, and all over things we call wrong and evil, are all justified through power and political might. For if there is no God then morality and truth are relativism and there is no such thing as love. If I wanted to play the devil's advocate here I could strip you of your entire humanity and all your dignity and self-worth just by teaching evolutionary humanism. I could dehumanize you and everyone else until you become as worthless as a dead goat is Muhammad's sock-puppet Allah..

Al-Adab Al-Mufrad of Imam Bukhari, Chapter 436, Hadith 962,

"Chapter 436: [This World Is More Worthless In The Sight Of Allah Than A Dead Goat]
962. Jabir b.'Abdullah said: "The Messenger of Allah passed the market on his way in from the high part of the city and the people were on both sides of him. He passed a dead goat with both ears cut off and reached out and took the ear. Then he said, 'Whowould like to buy this for a dirham? The people said, 'Why would we want to when it is worthless? What would we do with it?' He said, 'Would you like to have it?' They said, 'No.' He said that to them three times and they said, 'No, by Allah! If it were alive, it would have a defect as it has no ear. Why would we want it when it is dead?' The Prophet said, 'By Allah, this world is less in the sight of Allah than this dead goat is to you.' "

..But I never play the devil's advocate and I'm not here to dehumanize or degrade you or anyone on this forum or elsewhere in the world. For Scripture teaches that Faith, Hope, and Love are that which the Gospel message stands on. What good our humans without Faith, Hope, and Love? Where would we be without them? God does not see the world in the same way man does. For the teachings of man are found in atheism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and other worldviews based on a human perception of life. But God does not share in our sinful fallen ways but goes much further with His love:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

This love transcends Muhammad's sock-puppet and goes farther than human love can conceive. For our Father in Heaven is the Author of Love and our Heavenly Author is Eternal Love. We humans can't live by the teachings of atheism or Islam and expect not to blow up the earth! But..as it is written, man does do such evil to each other as to destroy the earth in the process:

Revelation 11:18,

"The nations were angry,
but Your wrath has come.
The time has come
for the dead to be judged
and to give the reward
to Your servants the prophets,
to the saints, and to those who fear Your name,
both small and great,
and the time has come to destroy
those who destroy the earth."

I could give an entire lecture on all this but the point is that mankind's sins lead to death just as it says in Scripture. So when we see these flat earthers brainwashing people into the occult, bringing them over to the acceptance of eternal death. We only have one soul and if we lose it we are just simply lost. God Is Life...not death. Those who chose death over Eternal Life get what they ask for in this life. So this flat earth deception is an act of murder...spiritual murder with intent of escalating into both spiritual and physical murder. So I took the time to dismantle the diabolical lies of murderers.

I hope you have a better understanding of where I'm coming from and why I posted so much about this flat earth topic. Its not a fun humor movement. Its there to murder people: first spiritually, and then physically (as anarchists are genocidal driven to cause chaos and mass death).

 

[FEZZILLA]

I think I will add one more post to this topic which deals with the book of Enoch. Now flat earthers claim this pseudepigrapha book says the earth is flat and the moon gives off its own light...a light independent from the sun, that is. The translation I have is considered the very best one. So I’ll be quoting from the well known James H. Charlesworth’s The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol.1.


So lets just look and see what this book says about the shape of the earth. Keep in mind that Enoch is not a Canonical book so it really doesn't matter what it says. But for the sake of clarity lets see how trustworthy flat earth information really is.

“These are the two great luminaries. Their roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and the magnitude of their roundness is equivalent for both. There are seven (more) portions of light that move in the sun’s sphere than in the moon’s and it increases in measure until they seventy of the sun are competed” (Enoch 78:3-4).

The sun’s sphere? So the sun and moon are spheres but the earth is a flat disc? Is this how flat earthers want us to understand it? Flat earthers also try to say this verse supports their flat earth assumptions. But if this is speaking about a flat earth, then it is speaking about a vertical flat earth! For the author of Enoch compared the curvature of the sky to the roundness of the sun and moon. Since the sun and moon appear vertical to us, therefore the earth would also be seen as vertical from the moon. Thus if we are to accept a flat earth interpretation, the flat earthers have to explain how water and people etc. keep from falling off this vertical earth with no gravity! But to the sober and clear minded this verse is speaking about a round earth, not a flat one.

Notice the bottom diagram of this picture. If flat earthers want to forcefully interpret this passage as flat earth then they are supporting the interpretation of a vertical flat earth. I personally think it pays off the apply common sense to the passage as accept it as a round earth verse since the sun and moon are being compared to the earth's shape.


So flat earthers also claim Enoch teaches how the moon gives off its own source of light.

“Then Uriel showed me another order (concerning) when light is beamed into the moon, from which (direction) of the bright sun it is beamed. During all the seasons when the moon is made to run its cycle, the light is being beamed into it (the moon) facing the sun until the illumination (of the moon) is complete in the course of fourteen days; and when it is lit completely, it radiates light in the sky” (Enoch 78:10-11).

Hum? You know, this is what happens when one person says this another says that and everybody trust what they heard from this person and that person and so on down the line without even once checking to confirm if Enoch indeed actually does say the things others say are in the book. But once the book is read the claims made by those who didn't read it are exposed and proven to the contrary as in the case with the passage above.

As I said before it really doesn't matter too much which is written in Enoch as it is not canonical Scripture and never was. Its even unsure if what we have today is even the original writing. The book does appear to have some Gnostic influence in it which would mean it fell into the hands of Gnostics which is most likely the reason why this book is not Canonical. Unfortunately there were many corruptions and forgeries in ancient times and authenticating writings was a pain staking work back in ancient times but their methods were every bit as good as our but better since they lived in a time when they were practiced in their methodology. Every book was well investigated before being approved as an authentic Canonical writing of Scripture. Those books that were not authentic did not make it into the Bible. So what those books contain may have some historical value to be sure, but they are not Scripture.
Many sincere efforts were made to separate the Inspired Books of the Bible from the philosophical works inspired only by men. All too often we hear the allegation that the Bible is a corruption and usually Constantine gets the blame for supposedly corrupting it. But when history shows how Christians weeded out the corrupted works which were not Inspired, Canonical Books, then the atheists claim they were excluding books of the Bible to hide their shame. But which is gonna be? Did the Christian church corrupt the Bible or did they weed out corrupt manuscripts? It cannot be both. The truth is that any manuscript that did not prove to be genuinely authentic was not gonna be Canonical. The Book of Enoch was never Canonized at any time. Enoch, then, was like The Shack to Christians today. But for whatever it’s worth, it did not teach flat earth science.

There are a couple of verses in the Bible that use the expression pertaining to how the moon gives off her light. This is an expression and not meant to be understood as the moon giving off her own source of light which is independent from the sun's light. I have never read any tradition ever saying the moon had its own source of light. Enoch is believed to have been dated in 200 B.C. to 100 B.C. Even though this book is corrupt it still maintains the strong Jewish believe that the earth is round and the moon does not give up its own source of light. The expression used in the Bible is merely an expression and not to be taken literally.

 

[Bloopy]

I could give an entire lecture on all this

You already have!

 

[FEZZILLA]

You already have!

 

[PrincessHades]

Its not as difficult as you made it seem. Kidnap flat earther, take them on a plane, show them that the earth is indeed curved, then remove them from the plane.