Is dithering nonsense?

[MetalSound]

That is the question.
I don´t mean the "technological" aspect of dithering down from 24 bit to 16 bit but the aspect of really HEARING a difference between the non-dithered and the dithered files.

Speaking of metal which is in general extremely loud and there is no such dynamic as it is in classic for example. I assume that you might hear a difference and the dithering noise in very quiet party in classic but in metal?!?

Do YOU really HEAR a difference between dithered/non-dithered and 24 bit and 16 bit?

I don´t.

 

[greyskull]

more artifacts and nastiness when you dont dither

 

[AudioPhile777]

haha... my question now is... how do you dither? is it a plugin?

EDIT: never mind... i found it on my L2... =P

 

[LSD-Studio]

I think yes....
if you believe strong enough you can even hear a difference between the various types and noiseshapes of dithering....

 

[colonel kurtz]

i can definitely hear a difference between the dithering options on the L2/L3...

 

[MetalSound]

hmmm, i tried different dithering types like Waves L1+,Apogee UV 22 hr and Wavelab but as long as I don´t crank up the volume at the end of a fade out, I can´t make out any real big difference.

I want to believe....

 

[nwright]

The argument is not the difference between the dithers, but rather to even dither or not.

For me, if I render a 16bit master from a 24 bit mix, I think I can hear artifacts if I don't dither.

Instead of trying to decide about dithering, I'd think the better test would be to compare a non dithered mix/master from a dithered mix master.

But be careful, many plugins apply dithering on their own, unless you turn it off, especially if you use or start from presets.

 

[~BURNY~]

I can hear a real difference in reverb tails, cymbal decay when songs end if I raise the volume enough.
That's about it. Maybe I suck...
I'd suggest we make a blind test to make sure it's not just mojo.
Anyone up for it?

 

[Where She Wept]

you don't record 16 bit, do you?

 

[MetalSound]

Okay, here we go.
One file is dithered down from 24 to 16 bit with Waves dithering and the other is not. Guess which. :Smug:
File 1

File 2

 

[~BURNY~]

Okay, here we go.
One file is dithered down from 24 to 16 bit with Waves dithering and the other is not. Guess which. :Smug:
File 1

File 2

I would add two or three more file without telling how many are dithered or not to make this test valid.
I would also remove the silence at the begining cause you can guess the answer by zooming into the waveform.

 

[MetalSound]

NO CHEATING!!!

It´s a blind test so don´t look!

 

[ReliXKeepeR]

I can't tell, but these are mp3 and the whole sound clips

 

[Radd]

I'm gonna say File 1 is dithered.
I listened to both files and at first I couldn't hear any difference. Then I listened to the very beginning over and over and did hear a click or crackle in both files as if there is a punch in. I listened to some more of both and thought I could hear that crackling some more in both files but maybe a bit less pronounced in file 1. Or it could be my imagination.

 

[Darkening]

Easy to hear. File #2 is dithered.

File #1 sounds fucking terrible.

I only listened to each one time for about 5 seconds.

 

[MetalSound]

If that seemed to be too easy here comes level 2:

File 3

File 4

File 5

What do you think about this in relation to the others?

 

[nwright]

you don't record 16 bit, do you?

I don't, if that was directed at me.

 

[James Murphy]

guy, seriously... i cannot believe this thread....

if you record and mix and 24 bit and don't dither before burning to CD the word length will be brutally chopped off at 16 bits and there will be audible artifacts.... c'mon now...

you may or may not notice... but that's down to how noisy your mix is to start with and/or how finely tuned your ears are.

 

[MetalSound]

I used to record in 16 bit but I got some songs to mix which were recorded in 24 bit and now I am trying to figure out which dither sounds best and if it makes a real noticeable difference....

I understand what dithering does but I want to HEAR it.
Do you?

 

[Radd]

I want to hear it also. They all sound the same to me.

Darkening - How loud did you have those files? Does that even matter? And what exactly are the differences in the two? Is it noticeable in a specific frequency range more or is it spread even over the entire range?