Jazz

[FuSoYa]

This is an article that I'd like you all to read, especially those of you who insist on elements of jazz in the metal you listen to.


Taken from UCSC Currents

March 11, 2002

African American musicians reflect on 'What Is This Thing Called Jazz?'

By Ann M. Gibb

Duke Ellington rejected it, Charles Mingus was ambivalent about it, and Wynton Marsalis is okay with it. For many African American musicians the word "jazz" is a double-edged term, sometimes representing black accomplishment and virtuosity; sometimes a symbol of segregation and creative limitations.

Eric Porter is the author of What Is This Thing Called Jazz? It's a dichotomy that extends from the word to the music. Jazz has been seen as a way to showcase contributions of African Americans to American society, to highlight black history and affirm black culture. But for some African American musicians, the music called jazz is a reminder of an oppressive and racist society and restrictions on their artistic visions.

"Now, jazz is celebrated as America's classical music," said Eric Porter, an assistant professor of American studies at UCSC and author of What Is This Thing Called Jazz?(Berkeley: University of California Press, 2002). "But in the past, it had a second-class status."

Porter covers the transformations, debates, and achievements of the African American jazz community across the last century. Analyzing the writings and commentaries of African American jazz musicians, he looks at the public face of a critical dialogue within the African American jazz community, and documents the intersections of music, American society, and African American intellectual history. The overlapping issues of Louis Armstrong swings with his band, circa 1937. Photo courtesy of the Library of Congress, Prints and Photographs Division, New York World-Telegram and the Sun Newspaper Collection. race, economics, politics, and gender reverberate across decades of jazz history.

"It was surprising to find how much consistency there was over time in the core issues and themes," said Porter. "While the conversations changed in significant ways over the course of jazz history, depending on the position of music in the culture and society, it's interesting to see how many of the same issues had been addressed from different perspectives and at different times."

One common point of contention has been the ways the discriminatory economic structure of the music industry has plagued African American musicians for much of the 20th century. "Jazz has, in important ways, marked the position of African American musicians as laborers in the music industry," said Porter.

Especially in the first half of the last century, it was not uncommon for African Americans trained in classical music to take jobs as jazz musicians when racial discrimination prevented them from obtaining positions in symphony orchestras. Porter documents the work of percussionist Max Roach, singer Abbey Lincoln, and other activist artists who, according to Porter's research, "accelerated a long-standing critique of economic inequalities in the music industry."

Female vocalists such as Lincoln are notable exceptions in the largely male-influenced history of jazz. Although women "have generally been the most popular and respected jazz singers," said Porter, "the community of jazz instrumentalists has largely been dominated by men, which in turn, has helped create a sense that jazz is a field of masculine accomplishment." African American men dominated the development of the black jazz community, and the language and concepts of jazz, just as men dominated in the other arts, the workforce in general, and most aspects of American society.

As Eric Porter's book makes clear, there's no simple answer to the question "What is this thing called jazz?" But paying attention to the ideas of African American musicians working in jazz, Porter argued, can "provide a means for rethinking jazz history. Musicians' ideas can add another chapter to the story of African American intellectual life."

*

 

[LuminousAether]

I fail to see the pertinence with this article disputing any claims of jazz elements in metal. If you use jazz percussion in a metal song, that's a jazz element. Trying to point out the racial qualities of jazz just doesn't make any sense to me, as jazz has moved past being a black only style of music into a style of music loved by music lovers of all races.

 

[FuSoYa]

what's jazz percussion?

 

[Static]

Dunno...what's astral metal?

 

[azal]

so I guess Jaco didn't play jazz bass because he was white?

 

[FuSoYa]

no, you have missed the point.


the point is that the term 'jazz' is frequently misused, especially in my experience with the metal scene, you see/hear this term thrown around anytime there's a 9th chord, an off-beat rhythm, horns, or upright bass.

The reason I care is because when people get used to using a term that they don't actually know the meaning of, then they start using it a lot, and very incorrectly. I posted this here because of the Ephel Duath thread - whereas I know nothing about that album and can't make any claim over it, when these same people start using the term 'jazz' to describe say, motW for example (something I have a personal attachment to) and they couldn't be more wrong, then I take issue with that.

 

[BigFakeSmile]

this si teh whitest thread evah

 

[Static]

no, you have missed the point.


the point is that the term 'jazz' is frequently misused, especially in my experience with the metal scene, you see/hear this term thrown around anytime there's a 9th chord, an off-beat rhythm, horns, or upright bass.

The reason I care is because when people get used to using a term that they don't actually know the meaning of, then they start using it a lot, and very incorrectly. I posted this here because of the Ephel Duath thread - whereas I know nothing about that album and can't make any claim over it, when these same people start using the term 'jazz' to describe say, motW for example (something I have a personal attachment to) and they couldn't be more wrong, then I take issue with that.

The simple solution to your problem is to get Ephel Duath and be mind-blowingly stunned at the INSANE jazziness of it all. In fact, one of the songs is not metal and is just an almost improv sounding jazz number. Guess thats what happens when your band has two genuine jazz musicians.

(oh, and their drummer is a 47 year old 'polyrhythmic' drum teacher/insanely awesome jazz musician. His drumming has to be heard to be believed...I'm floored that at 47 this guy still has so much energy to burn)

Jazz in terms of MoTW...hrmmm, no I can't really hear any jazz in there at all. Maybe there's a few bits that sound 'jazzy', but that doesn't mean it is jazz. I can hardly even think of the last album I listened to and thought: 'fuck this is jazz metal' or 'wow, this is jazz influenced'. However, when I got Ephel Duath, on the first song in the first few seconds I thought: 'holy shit. GENUINE jazz metal'. It was a great feeling.

 

[Ecto]

I don't know why you MotW guys get upset (I guess) when people say you have jazz/blues influences...I have the same opinion...You don't play these styles, but sure have the influences.

 

[FuSoYa]

adsfgafhsa

 

[FrostGiant]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Karl Malone.

 

[azal]

I don't think anyone is saying that bands like Cynic or Canderia PLAY JAZZ or that any of the bands would call themselves jazz.

But there is a certain sound...and certain techniques, whether it be chord progressions, syncopated rhythms, the ose of modes or whatever that are commonly associated with the idiom and style known as "jazz."

Alot of metal bands are influenced by jazz musicians and incorporate some of these characteristics into their music.

They aren't jazz groups, and I don't see Meshuggah putting out an album on blue note any time soon....but the influence on their style by these characteristics developed and perfected in jazz music are evident.

And as for motW, I realize you guys had no intention to be jazzy or anything like that...but music is what it is in the ear of the beholder, I would say.

And when I first purchased your albums and listened...I immediately associated some of what I was hearing to Ornette Coleman style free jazz, regardless of what your intentions were.

So yeah...on topic, music post.

 

[avi]

apparently Fredrik Thorendal is pretty notorious for getting way too drunk at various Umeå jazzfests and making an ass of himself, yelling at bands, etc.

 

[azal]

that's awesome.

 

[Static]

adsfgafhsa

Fascinating...

 

[VangelicSurgeon]

I certainly think there are jazz elements in motW. Basically, what Azal said.