kurt godel is so awesome
- Thread starter minxnim
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mindspell
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mindspell
vvv Jake's ass vvv
Helm
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Yeah I am interested in the subject as well. Kinda sceptical about how the IT applies to more abstracted philosophical thought. Post-Modernists have used it extensively to underline that no formal logical system can be free of recursion, and thusly any logical argument can be reduced to a number of self-referential fallacies. Whereas I can't argue the opposite, it seems to me that the very basis of existence (sentience, a man realizing that he himself exists) is inherently self-referential, and so instead of approaching recursion as a 'showstopper' in formal logic, where if it exists, and since it always exists, nothing can be proven, and all interactive codification is pointless, it must be somehow integrated into our mode of thinking. Principa Mathematicia was not a step in the right direction, because it was quite reactionary, trying instead to create a formal system in which recursion would be impossible. This created such a system that was very very impractical (in which a level could only refer to levels before it, but not to itself, or the ones above it) but also, which was later proven to suffer from recursion also.
i think a lot of the problem is people have, more often than not, interpreted godel's theorem and his ideas in the completely opposite moral/philosophical direction than he intended them and that he interprets them.
there's a really good book about this: incompleteness.
there's a really good book about this: incompleteness.
Sandfire
Empathic Resonator
Wait a second, am I surrounded by Phil. majors?! I come here to get AWAY from you people! GAAAH!!!
Helm
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But should philosophers even take into account how a mathematician intended his theorem to be applied in a field that is only marginally aligned to his own?
probably. i mean should a person take into consideration what a scriptwriter meant a film to be like?
besides, godel was a scientist and then a mathematician. the person who most agreed with his opinions was einstien, who was a mathematician and THEN a scientist. i think their opinions are valid.
Helm
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I think number theory, as a positive science, is ways apart from philosophy and other types of ethics in which the incompleteness theorem has been carelessly applied by post-modernists with an agenda. So, it is as much an error, in my opinion to apply the theorem in these fields, as it would be to apply it in keeping with Godel's ethical/philosophical persuasion. Seems irrelevant. Like a nazi scientist that, let's say, discovers the existence of quarks. Whether or not he has some warped notion of what the quarks represent in his nazi-tinted worldview, the quarks are there, and have little to do with his ethics. So regardless of which views godel had on the fields in which his thorem has been very loosely (in regards to validity) applied, it doesn't make said application any less suspect.
FuSoYa
Lunarian
mindspell
vvv Jake's ass vvv
I agree to a certain extent but as Minx already said people seem to interpret the theorem is a whole different context than what it is supposed to be interpreted. There is a number of false or incorrect use of the theorem in litterature. Logic is more math than it is philo and as such the theorem certainly hold its own. It is a lot more interesting to study it within its fixed set of axiom than it is to try to recontextualize them.
I am not a philo major by any stretch of the imagination... I haven't read Kant yet!
I am not a philo major by any stretch of the imagination... I haven't read Kant yet!
i could never stomach philosophy. i am sure godel had concerns about the interpretation of his theorem but i also think he mainly wrote it because he had to. i don't pay enough attention to what a post modernist might do with a number theory so i can't really say. i just know there are all these intricate objectivist/realist arguments and attachments to the theorem and it's sort of zzzzzz
Sandfire
Empathic Resonator
Sandfire
Empathic Resonator
Mindspell: Weird. You echo my sentiments exactly. I had a prof once who called all philosophy students who had not read Kant "pre-critical".
Josh Seipp
Member
Helm
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