Limiter reduction on snare peak or full mix?

[Downtuned]

Hi all I have a quick question about limiters and snares.

My snare is always the biggest peak in the mix but I'm not worried because its never smashed but I'm wondering, when I start to pull down the threshhold the snare is always the first thing to activate movement.

I usually don't aim for much reduction, -3dB or so but should I judge the reduction on what the snare is providing or push it a little further to get the rest of the mix in as well.

Or should I go back to the drawing board and make the snare peaks level with the rest of the mix?

Thanks!

 

[Kohugaly]

I've heard many people soft-clip the snares at mixing stage, to get arid of the tops of the peaks.

 

[crillemannen]

I know ppl around here limit there snares but i never liked the idea. It's quite the opposite what I want to do with a snare. I want to preserve the transient as good as i can.

I usually set the snare lvl when i start to mix so it sounds good without a limiter on.

 

[Downtuned]

Sorry I should clarify, this is the limiter at the end of my master chain, not a limiter on the snare channel. And I have GClip on the snare channel, the snare bus and the drum bus also but the transient is still much louder than anything else in the mix, although to the ear it sits nicely.

 

[crillemannen]

Well then whats the problem? You think it sounds good then it is good. Gclip in my ears sounds like a terrible idea btw.. If an element is to loud in your mix you usually just lower that element

 

[Downtuned]

There's no problem as such I was just wondering how to correctly judge the limiter. If it's just getting the reduction off the snare and not touching the actual mix is it actually doing anything? I've tried a couple of ways and I can't really tell much difference so just wondering what the general opinion is.

You're probably right on Gclip. I like it on the channel itself but maybe the snare and drum bus is overkill.

 

[bryan_kilco]

I've been pondering the same questions recently.

I like my snare to slam and cut through but it is always the biggest transient in the mix. I also (sometimes) throw GClip on snare bus at the end of the chain. It does seem to help but my ears can't really hear a difference with/without GClip.

I hear a lot of talk about people instantly picking out "oh that snare is wayyyy too compressed", but on some mixes that this is said about, the snare really pops out and cracks.

I'm really starting to think that my ears are royally fucked. =/

 

[GearMan2point0]

If you clear up some of the frequencies in the guitar tracks, and let the snare shine through those peaks......you will find that your snare can be lowered in volume and still have snap enough to fill thru. Then when you limit the master bus, you won't find it slamming as hard.

 

[mstone564]

I think putting an L1 on the end of your snare chain to catch the loudest peaks only is good practice.

 

[CameronS]

Use two limiters, one for the snare (and whatever else) that peaks much higher than the rest of the mix, and one for the rest. The 2nd one will be able to function better without that snare fucking it up. Also +1 to gearman for the clearing out frequencies for the snare to fit in, cause that's probably the bigger problem

 

[crillemannen]

I think putting an L1 on the end of your snare chain to catch the loudest peaks only is good practice.

Says who?

 

[Ermz]

It's not uncommon for snare peaks to be fairly errant after compression - especially if you're dealing with a largely raw performance. A limiter on the back end allows you to set a threshold so that the hardest hits don't blow out your mix. It allows finer control of the attack portion of the sound, where you can actually clamp down quite hard with slow attack compression, or push the 'Attack' portion of a transient designer all while keeping the transients relatively sane.

That being said, it's not unusual for the snare transient to be the most prominent within the mix. In fact I believe it's quite common. Limiters tend to annihilate snares, and over time mixing habits have developed to push the snare forward, so that when listening to an unmaximized mix it sounds a little disproportionately loud. After mastering, it generally evens out. The actual leeway you have either way on this is discretionary and the ability to know just how to treat those peaks is a factor of experience, developed over time.

 

[crillemannen]

That being said, it's not unusual for the snare transient to be the most prominent within the mix. In fact I believe it's quite common. Limiters tend to annihilate snares, and over time mixing habits have developed to push the snare forward, so that when listening to an unmaximized mix it sounds a little disproportionately loud. After mastering, it generally evens out. The actual leeway you have either way on this is discretionary and the ability to know just how to treat those peaks is a factor of experience, developed over time.

Yeah that is my experience too. And that's why i feel it is a waste to clip the snare with a shitty limiter as the L1, totally destroying the snare before it is being clipped on the master buss.

You still want some transient and attack to the snare don't you?

 

[bryan_kilco]

Limiters tend to annihilate snares, and over time mixing habits have developed to push the snare forward, so that when listening to an unmaximized mix it sounds a little disproportionately loud. After mastering, it generally evens out.

This is why I almost always slap a limiter on my master and mix through that.

 

[Downtuned]

Thanks for the reply's folks.

My snare doesn't sound particularly bad when I push the limiter so the rest of the mix is getting hit it just gets a little too lost for my liking but I've heard this on over squashed commercial mixes as well it's just not to my taste

I've looked at where the snare is most prominent on the frequency analyser and made couple of dips to let it though so that's not really the issue. It doesn't help that I have keyboard synth lines in there as well.

I was also having bother with it sounding a bit too 'ticky' like Meshuggah's snare (which is good but I like more body) but I sorted that by increasing the compressor attack to 30ms instead of 20 and let it breathe a bit more.

But still I'll mess around and see what's what. I do like it when the full mix hit's hit (although I don't believe in crushing it) because it brings a lot out but to do that the limiter is hitting -6 to -10dB and the snare brings out at least -3dB before anything else is touched.

My mix is peaking at -12dB on it's own own so there's plenty of headroom to work with.