Live Sound.

Seizure.

Seizure.

Member
Jul 13, 2005
2,212
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holland
www.seizure-music.com
yo dudes,

i have been asked to do live sound quit some while know, by quit some bands..
and i have just been asked again by a band thats notorious for its music being hard to mix out live ( http://www.myspace.com/greylinehardcore ).

And i'm not quit sure yet if i should accept, i mean... i do have some experience in live mixing ( i had to jump in once for the last band on an evening, were i actually was doing monitors in which i have most experience..), and i build up P.A's for a job so i know how everything works.. but apart from that i NEVER did sound for a band from start to finish...

Now...
i CAN make stuff sound decent (allthough i'm still learning..), and i know my EQ technique's/range...
were mud is... were the hiss is.. were that cheap sound on the guitar is..etc..
but most of this was gained in the studio and i'm kinda worrying on these things:

first of all the difference between graphic (i couldn't come up with the better word..) and parametric EQ... (i understand the difference between the 2 obviously.. but can i work with them fast/good enough.. don't i need some practice first.. what range is most important to take on first in a live situation? that sort of thing..)
Then the big difference between mixing in a big ass venue with a big P.A next to mixing on nearfield monitors... thats should change some things..:oops:

and not having a C4 in rack version ofcourse:D (anyway how i could get low end in shape live wise?)

so dudes... help me out here.... should i go over the things i DO know.. practice on a Mackie abit to get the parametric thing down... and just get myself in shape for this thing and just see and hope everything goes well? (i realy do believe i have the knowledge to do mix these guys well...)

or should i decline and get some practice first? (and not having to risk having a band kicking my ass for giving them crap sound.. IF it happens..)

HELP ME OUT HERE!!!:erk:

btw, i do know the band and have allready attended a few practice sessions to allready see what was going on/wrong soundwise.
and i must say... i allready got the guitars well/better balanced (ampeg and framus amps..)
 
The main thing you need to do is ring the rig out to the room...Live sound is sometimes about comprimising certain eq's because the rig or the room can't handle it. Another important issue is leaving plenty of headroom on the desk inputs, if you need to drive the board because the rig is under powered then do it on the groups or VCA's if its a decent quality board.
 
well it was yesterday!! and yeah, i notticed what you said about the headroom.. damn, this is a tottaly different kind of mixing..

getting a good kick/bass is totally different then in the studio.. live it has to punch you in the chest!! and form a massive basis.

and one thing i have to get used to is changing my thoughts about sound from visual.. (as in all graphical Eq/ reverb shaping in plug ins etc..etc..) to knobs..

but all went well.. alot people said that for greyline and the venue they played in.. everything was realy clear with a good basis (allthough i should have realy gated/compressed the the kick..)

I'll be tagging along with this band now.. so i bet this will be a realy big learning experiences and it hopefully will realy improve my knowledge of sound:headbang:

btw, i'm a Noob in this area.. but what are VCA's?:erk:
 
Voltage Controlled Amplifier (an amplifier that will change gain according to the level of control voltage sent to it). Usually you use it to group instruments (on VCA for the drums, one for the guitars, etc...) and change the volume of the instruments routed to it.
 
A normal set up for routing to VCA's is:

VCA's are stereo by the way

1: K/S/Hat
2: Toms
3: Gtr's
4: Bass
5: B Vox
6: Vox
7: F/X
8: All

Oh's normally route straight to L-R

This is 90% what you will find on boards with VCA's, especially at festivals etc...
 
Seizure. said:
how did you prepare for the first time/switch to live mixing?
Click to expand...

I just read the manual of the soundboard to make sure I knew everybutton's function, know how to plug effects in the inserts (yeah, with real cable and stuff ! :) ) and that's pretty much it... You have to be very effective during soundcheck, things are usually a bit hectic... Then live mixing is more stresful during the first minutes of the show (where you basically redo the soundcheck with the audience and the band playing...), but then it's much more forgiving than a recording in my opinion. I really prefer studio work...
 
Brett - K A L I S I A said:
I just read the manual of the soundboard to make sure I knew everybutton's function, know how to plug effects in the inserts (yeah, with real cable and stuff ! :) ) and that's pretty much it... You have to be very effective during soundcheck, things are usually a bit hectic... Then live mixing is more stresful during the first minutes of the show (where you basically redo the soundcheck with the audience and the band playing...), but then it's much more forgiving than a recording in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I'd say this is pretty accurate, but I'd add that when you get in the zone and things start sounding great it can be a really cool feeling....one similar to when you are really nailing things as a player. Especially when you are doing nice fader rides and generally nailing the detail stuff. I don't think you really get this in a studio environment (or at least I haven't). The flipside is that when things sound like shit you have to act quickly. Also sometimes the house system or room criple your ability to make things great. I would reiterate Mikey's earlier point that ringing out the room will make things much easier later.
 
Brett - K A L I S I A said:
I just read the manual of the soundboard to make sure I knew everybutton's function, know how to plug effects in the inserts (yeah, with real cable and stuff ! :) ) and that's pretty much it... You have to be very effective during soundcheck, things are usually a bit hectic... Then live mixing is more stresful during the first minutes of the show (where you basically redo the soundcheck with the audience and the band playing...), but then it's much more forgiving than a recording in my opinion. I really prefer studio work...
Click to expand...

yeah, that was one the things i did but that actually got me in trouble on the first gig... i learned with Mute AND solo buttons... and this board only had mute buttons... so i was looking for a solo button..:oops:

but it was kind of hectic, (public transport was out thanks to snow and i was late..) and i only had time to EQ my way out and set a balance and then the doors got opened.
i set the gates and compressors at the gigo_O

egan. said:
I would reiterate Mikey's earlier point that ringing out the room will make things much easier later.
Click to expand...

yeah, it is.. allthough this is realy something that comes down to experience.. i know how it works and i could do it, but since i haven't been in livemixing alot i figure its better to rely on the housemixer for this and make your own adjustments to taste:headbang:

Btw: all went well.. i'm doing some upcoming gigs and i'm tagging along for tour through germany:D
its a cool band.. glad they liked it!!!
 
My one advice would be try to keep everything as simple as can be concerning outboard... The less the easier... Gates on toms, compressor on bass and vocals, gates (and compressor) on snare if needed... and that's pretty much it...
 
Mikey Bolton said:
VCA's are stereo by the way
Click to expand...

VCA's are not stereo as they are not actually a part of the signal path. They are basically a remote control. Signal doesnt actually pass through a VCA in the same way it does with a group buss. As a result you can control the relative level of an entire stereo drum kit from 1 VCA fader should you wish.
 
on a related side note, i have a question for all you guys who do live sound:
what do you look for in a guitar sound, and on the other hand, what do you guys absolutely hate when dealing with a live guitar sound?
 
i only did it twice right know so its better to listen to guys like brett haha..

but what i did last time is check that the guys have there amps set right with a good sound going on that will fit in the balance well even without EQ.
then i low passed from 60 hz.. added a bit of high mid... took some mud out and took out some highs. then just set them right in the mix in volume.:headbang:

knowing where the bass his definition is helps alot too (as so i notticed)

then i balanced the bass with the kick, and if it all goes well you'll have a bitching sound going on by now:headbang: hardest thing to do btw is making the kick and bass compliment eachother well.. and have BAGS of punch.
thats what i was fucking around with.

check the behringer topic btw!!:headbang:
 
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